This will be my second layout. The first was 8X2 1/2 feet, but now I have more space. I've negotiated an area in the garage between the garage door and the side door. Givens: 15' 9" between doors - no obstructions, but the width is negotiable Must be semi-mobile; my last layout survived 2 moves. Atlas Code 80 N scale sectional track - I have bags of it salvaged from my last layout Old time N scale rolling stock lettered for AT&SF and D&RG(W) - also survivors from my last layout DC control also from my last layout - my son would like DCC - perhaps one day My love of the American Southwest Druthers: Model the AT&SF mainline around Albuquerque, NM as close as feasible A through yard Engine terminal movements Express and local passenger operations Express and local freight operations Modeling recognizable locations in the subject area A branch line and interchange with the Rio Grande 1-3 operators - myself, my son and perhaps my wife or a friend At least two train operation I've been influenced by John Armstrong's Cajon pass plan especially the idea of a bent dogbone mainline with stacked reverse loops. I'm also enamored with Charles Small's Cerro Azul RR (plan 47 in Westcott's 101 Track Plans) and it's switch back branch lines. I also like Bob Foltz's HO New Mexico Division, although my modeling abilities are much more limited. I look forward to your suggestions. Currently, I have an incomplete track plan that I am sure is too busy for my space. It is based on a water wings shaped table against one wall. I'm using RTS 10.0, but have yet to master it.
I highly recommend making the switch to DCC. It will save you many headaches in the long run. I have some old track planning books, lemme take a look through them and see what I can find.
bremner- yes the MDC/Athearn engines have a bit of room in the tender for the smallest decoders, ref. my thread in N scale for pics. 'The future home of Northern Pscific & Black Hills,' it is a tight fit and requires some mods to the tender, but hasn't given me any trouble yet. as for your layout design ideas, portablilty is always a plus! I would modify a plan and build it modularly so you can easily rearrange them as you choose or as a move or real estate change dictates. I remember seeing some articles about an HO layout built in your modeled locale in that fashion, the CAT mountain and Santa Fe? It is a plan that I am going to incorporate into my final design. Being a large square area you have there a walk in plan with double back looping on the ends would be most useful and give you ease of access to most sides of the layout. Just my two cents worth. And, yes, I jumped into dcc reluctantly, til I saw jdcolombo's sound equipt dcc video elsewhere on the N scale forum. Love it!
Sell the sectional track to a first-timer & use flex, (way less rail joints) track & solder them wherever possible.
Thanks for your suggestions. Below is a rough drawing of the part of my garage the layout will occupy. Each square is 6". On the left is the side door. To the right about three feet down from the corner is the garage door. I'll likely use a water wings design on an open grid sectional table similar to ones in Wilson's Basic Model Railroad Benchwork. Please, don't be concerned that the table extends into the garage blocking part the garage door. The door is too narrow to fit my truck into anyway. I suppose my garage is little more than a glorified storage shed, which is what we use most of it for anyway. I'll be leaving an access aisle about 21" wide on the right side. I realize the I may still have reach issues. My little boy, of course, wants a tunnel along the long wall and I made the end blobs kind of wide to avoid narrow radii or laying the track too close to the table edge. Maybe I can use the tunnel to create a loads-in/empties-out arrangement? I'll be putting the layout at least partly on wheels, so I can pull it away from the walls to access the tunnel and other distant places.
This is a creative idea and I wish you the best of luck! I'm betraying my love of mountain railroading here, but I couldn't refrain from including Raton Pass in this layout... and using Trinidad as the prototype for a D&RGW interchange. I think it's valuable to think through what you're hoping to achieve by considering operation -- how you get Train A from Point A to Point B in the face of conflicting traffic, switching duties, timetable pressure, etc. At the end of the day, it's not that much fun to run trains around in a circle!
Thanks for the encouragement! elbaldwino - "I highly recommend making the switch to DCC. It will save you many headaches in the long run." I have a Bachmann 4-6-0 DCC that I run in analog. I would consider DCC control at some future point, but right now I already have most of what I need for DC control. I'll keep DCC in mind. Bremner - "Can the MDC/Athearn locos and the Atlas steamers be DCC?" Thanks for your input on my thread in fallen flags. I'm happy to see you comment here. As to your question: I think that Spookshow says that the MDC locos can be modified with difficulty, but the Atlas ones, especially the new 4-4-0 cannot be. BoxcabE50 - "I'll agree with the DCC suggestions." Thanks for following me to this thread too. I think you greeted me in my intro thread last year. I'm afraid that with my current investment in DC and the difficulty of converting my engine roster, I will have to forge ahead in DC on this layout for the time being. Badlandnp - "Being a large square area you have there a walk in plan with double back looping on the ends would be most useful and give you ease of access to most sides of the layout." Yes, I'm fond of that idea. Armstrong's Cajon Pass track plan has influenced my current track plan greatly. RatonMan - "Sell the sectional track to a first-timer & use flex, (way less rail joints) track & solder them wherever possible." I'm afraid that I have quite a bit of it from my last layout. One selling point for my wife (and company CFO) on the new layout was that I wouldn't need to start all over from scratch with completely new equipment. However, I used some flex on my last layout in a limited capacity and I would like to do more of that. I'll have to experiment with it more when the time comes. I'm also interested in trying out curved turnouts. John Armstrong and M.C. Fujiwara both speak highly of them. Bryan - "This is a creative idea and I wish you the best of luck!" Thanks for the kind words. "I'm betraying my love of mountain railroading here, but I couldn't refrain from including Raton Pass in this layout... and using Trinidad as the prototype for a D&RGW interchange." That would be great. I've also thought about Pueblo and the Joint Line. OTOH, a major selling point for my son, helper and head cheerleader is that we are modeling the tracks to his grandparents' house in Santa Fe, in olden times. We live in Albuquerque and occasionally take the Railrunner up north, so the choice of location has meaning to him. "I think it's valuable to think through what you're hoping to achieve by considering operation -- how you get Train A from Point A to Point B in the face of conflicting traffic, switching duties, timetable pressure, etc. At the end of the day, it's not that much fun to run trains around in a circle!" Good point, which allows me to segue to the true purpose of this post. I've drawn up with a rough schematic of my track plan on graph paper. This is not to scale and is subject to change, but I hope it will give an idea as to what I am trying to achieve. One compromise I'm having to make is to model the old Rio Grande branch in standard gauge. I look forward to comments and constructive criticism from all you helpful folks.
Below is the route map for the AT&SF from their 1891 timetable, along with an exploded view of the area my family and I desire to model. Perhaps I should have posted this before my schematic since they show the context for the locations we're attempting recreate, however stylized. Our layout is going to depict a condensed version of the mainline between Atlantic & Pacific Junction (now called Isleta) and Lamy. At Lamy is a junction with the Santa Fe branch to the territorial capital. In the capital city the Santa Fe RR interchanges with the D&RG's narrow gauge Chili Line. We're going to attempt to depict the Chili Line as far as Española, which at the time had a minor yard and turntable. This will allow us to model a junction with diverging routes (A&P Jct.), a minimal division point through yard (Albuquerque), a passing siding at Wallace, a branch line interchange at Lamy, and a transfer interchange at Santa Fe. A short stretch of the Rio Grande's Santa Fe branch will let us use some of the D&RG equipment we salvaged from our last layout.
Do a Google search for Bob Foltz' Santa Fe layout that includes Santa Fe. It goes around his basement wall. It's a beautiful rendition of the Santa Fe & NM in the transition era. He's in Colorado Springs Colorado. Got to operate on it once - WOW!
Thanks Cajon, I have a copy of the June 2011 issue of Model Railroader with Bob Foltz' layout. I would love to emulate his juniper dotted hills, so common in central NM. His scratch built station and Harvey House in Las Vegas (NM) are as intimidating as they are inspirational. One day my modeling skills may improve to the point where I can attempt some scratch building. Here's a couple of sites I found with pictures of his work: http://home.comcast.net/~rockyop/even/layouts/atsf.htm http://www.rarg2013.org/Clinics/from-prototype-to-model-railroad One reason I chose the 1890s for my era is that it is before the Alvarado hotel (Albuquerque's old Harvey house) was built in 1902. I have not found any Spanish Mission style station kits in N scale, so I would need to build one from scratch. However, I have the Combination Town Depot kit by Period Miniatures. It is a wood craftsman kit that closely resembles Albuquerque's old wooden station (except for the bay windows), I'm sure it will challenge my modeling skills, since up to this point I have only built plastic kits. Another modeler who's work I also admire is Leslie Trill. He lives in England. I've known of him since the 90s. I have some N scale plans he drew up for several historic buildings around the rail yard in Santa Fe that I would like to model when my skills reach that level. He models in N and Nn3. His layout includes Lamy, Santa Fe, Raton and perhaps more. Here's links to a couple of his Youtube vids: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bejDBbNdfic http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgMs84Idrb0 I wish either of these guys had a blog or webpage like Craig Bisgeier. He models Connecticut's Housatonic RR in the 1890s in HO. His page contains lots of helpful layout design tips like his now famous 10 Commandments of Model Railroad Yard Design and other modeling advice. Here's a link to his page: http://www.housatonicrr.com/
Chili Looks like you've done alot of "homework" for your MR. Researching prototypes & ways to modeling can be as much fun as operating it - all most. Don't let scratchbuilding intimidate you too much. Think Bob Foltz had to do that for most of his structures. Maybe you can use pix on your backdrops for the big ones like the ABQ depot. Saw someone was offering N scale resin structures on another forum but have to find it again. Have you seen Worley's "Iron Horses of the Santa Fe Trail"? It would be a great help in learning about early Santa Fe steam.
Thanks for the encouragement Cajon. Our library has the Worley book in the reference section. I'll have to look at it. I'm also keeping an eye out for adobe buildings in N scale. I only have one that I found at a wargames shop many years ago. As my layout progresses, and I gain confidence and modeling experience, I'm sure that I will be able to tackle more challenging projects, over time. Right now, I'm going to try to hammer out a track plan. Below I will post my current plan. It seems to do most of what I want it to do and adheres pretty close to the schematic that I posted earlier. I recently re-measured my available space in my garage and my access aisle will only be 19", not 21" as I previously (and erroneously) stated. I am shooting for 10 car trains of mostly MDC/Athearn old timers. I think that 36" passing sidings will accommodate them. I'm using a variation of John Armstrong's minimal division point through yard from his Track Planning for Realistic Operation book 3rd ed (pg 26). I'm going to aim for a 2% mainline grade along the back to the top return loop. Underneath that and the branchline my son wants a tunnel and I thinking of making it do loads-in/empties-out duty for our lumberyard. Near the top loop is the branch interchange yard at Lamy. The yard at Santa Fe will be minimal with a wye and transfer yard. the wye will be on a cartridge in the back right corner. then another 2% grade to Española atop the mesa created by the stacked return loops. The center of the layout will be the town (an approximation of 1st St. and Railroad Ave. in 1890s Albuquerque. Perhaps I'm being overly optimistic about what will fit, but I'm hoping that experiments with flex track and curved turnouts will alleviate some of my cramping. I would like at least 2" between the outer tracks and the edge of the table. To anyone who is good at that sort of thing, please help me identify S curves and other potential problems. I'm also reposting my schematic for comparison and clarification. Please forgive my lack of proficiency with RTS 10. I'm sure it can do much more than what I have here, but it seems to freeze a lot, so I have to save often, and that makes me reluctant to try anything fancy with it.
Chili Stand corrected. Santa Fe did get into the Rockies. Historically Santa Fe wanted to build west of Pueblo CO but "settled" on using The D&RGW rails out of Pueblo to stations of Portland, Florence & Canon City. Have an ATSF Colorado Division ETT (4/27/80) that has the Canon City District in it. If you haven't read "History of the Atchison, Topeka & Santa Fe Railway" by Keith L Bryant do so as his coverage of the Santa Fe's history is outstanding. And it covers all the areas your modeling! Found this picture of a Santa Fe train in Canon City looking for pix of this loco type.
Thanks again Cajon, Your post actually relates to the original post in my thread over on the Fallen Flags forum: http://www.trainboard.com/grapevine/showthread.php?148087-Glorieta-District-in-the-19th-Century Apparently the Santa Fe RR went back and forth between using the terms district and sub-division. here is a link to a list from 1994 using the term subdivision: http://atsfirc.qstation.org/atsfdivs.html I have a timetable from 1891, but it does not note any organization smaller than division - other than branch: http://www.railsandtrails.com/ETT/ATSF/1891-03-15 ATSF/index.htm So I decided to take a cue from Bob Foltz and just call it New Mexico Division.
Chili The change from District to Subdivision happened in '85 when Santa Fe thought they were going to merge W/ SP. Before then it was always districts. My oldest ETT is 1945. And yes your MR is the NM Div., but not sure what things were called back in your time period as don't have ETTs from then. During Bob Foltz' era that part of his MR was in the Raton & Glorietta Districts of the NM Div.
That's great info. My 1891 ETT doesn't mention any organization smaller than Division. The proposed merger with the SP would be a compelling reason to change terminology. However, the fact that you have other ETTs going back to 1945, and they all call my subject area the Glorieta District is some strong evidence that that name was probably used even earlier. I thought to use Glorieta District as a more distinguishing term, especially for friends and family wanting to find my forum threads on Trainboard to see my track plan or layout building progress. I still may do that, barring any addition info to the contrary. OTOH, the broader name NM Division protects me from any joker claiming otherwise - BTB - Have you looked at my track plan? What do you think of it so far? It's a work in progress and I am looking for ways to improve it.
Your plan is VERY busy! Wondering how you're going to separate things w/ scenery. And do you really need that switchback from American Lumber to the El Paso/LA loop? And it looks like you'll have to back a train from either end. And that's along way, especially in N scale. Is there any way for you to go around the walls w/ your plan.
Thank you for giving me input on my plan. Sorry I didn't get back sooner, but I wanted to give you a thoughtful response. "Your plan is VERY busy! Wondering how you're going to separate things w/ scenery." I was going to have an old west town scene in the center of the layout with the track behind it climbing a ridge with a 2% grade to the top return loop. "And do you really need that switchback from American Lumber to the El Paso/LA loop? And it looks like you'll have to back a train from either end. And that's along way, especially in N scale." I added the switchback because I didn't think that I had the space to loop the track around from the yard to the tunnel with anything but the tightest curves. My boy wants a tunnel and I like the sincerity of loads-in/empties out for flat cars with log loads. Perhaps it's too gimmicky? Maybe I am trying to do too much in my limited space. I'm afraid that the area I've negotiated is the most I'll be able to get. It's nearly 16' long and almost 4' wide. Almost twice the square footage of my 1st layout. The first one was 8X2. It was a single track oval with a passing siding, a small yard that also served as a passing siding opposite it, a wye in the middle to reverse direction and a short branchline that hugged the inside of one of the 180° curves. My wife and I worked on it together using mainly Woodlands Scenics materials and we were very happy with the results. Now with a bigger space I would like more operation. I think I also want more than just an oval of track. I like the idea of the trains appearing to go somewhere. So, I've become enamored of John Armstrong's stacked loop to loop concept. However, I'm not wedded to this trackplan or the stacked loops concept, although I am wedded to the space size and shape. A water-wings shaped table seems best to me if I want continuous running rather than a point-to-point switching layout. I appreciate you being willing to discuss this with me and giving me the benefit of your experience in the hobby. I want this to be a fun thing to do with my family, so I guess I shouldn't over analyze or anguish over it, but I also want to produce something nice that I will enjoy and take pride in. Please, share some more of your thoughts about what can be done with the space I have available and that shaped table.
