Traincam electrical help needed

Inkaneer Oct 29, 2013

  1. Inkaneer

    Inkaneer TrainBoard Member

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    I have a small movie camera that I installed on a Walthers intermodal well car. Camera obtains power from a 9 volt battery and sends a signal to a receiver which can then be connected to a TV or recorded. My problem is that there is frequently a lot of static in the picture and I am not sure what is causing it. So far the suggestions have been dirty track or possibly the flourescent lighting. Someone suggested installing an electrical doo dad, thing a ma jig or hickey ma doodle that would eliminate the staticy picture. Being electronically challenged beyond white wire and black wire, I have absoluitely no idea of what they are saying. Any help would be appreciated.
     
  2. James Norris

    James Norris TrainBoard Supporter

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    Is your layout DC or DCC?

    -James
     
  3. RT_Coker

    RT_Coker TrainBoard Supporter

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    It would be best to eliminate some possibly problems first.

    1) Try just the camera car on the track with layout power and florescent lights (, and other things like computers, wireless routers, ...) turned off. And then turn things on one at a time. Move the camera car around each time, and move it as near to the power source that is being turn on as possible.

    2) Shake the camera car to look for intermittent connections in the car.
    Bob
     
  4. alhoop

    alhoop TrainBoard Supporter

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    Dirty track can cause this as can intermittent shorts as when metal wheels go over a frog.

    I have used two different brands of cameras that transmit RF to a receiver and both have glitches.


    Here is your answer for glitch free recording:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cg8DcpTlvho

    Al
     
  5. Josta

    Josta TrainBoard Supporter

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    Do you have wifi for your computer? That caused interference with my cameras. Try turning it off and see how the camera performs.

    John
     
  6. BarstowRick

    BarstowRick TrainBoard Supporter

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    Let's see if we have this correct. You are not... getting power from the track to power the camera...right? You are not sending the signal back through the track...right? The system is a closed circuit wireless camera system...right? If so, it has nothing to do with dirty track, Analog DC or DCC. More then likely, this is a line of sight system. Once the camera goes out of sight of the receiver you could see the problems you've described. Go back to John A. aka Josta's post. We both saw the same thing on his layout until he shut off the wireless connection for his computer. You may need to hard wire your computer as in utilizing an Ethernet cable.

    I hope that helps.
     
  7. DrMb

    DrMb TrainBoard Member

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    Do you put the car in front of the locomotives or at the end of a train when filming? The DC motors found in all locomotives do give off radio interference and might be the culprit if you are going for the "cab view" when filming.
     
  8. alhoop

    alhoop TrainBoard Supporter

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    He is not getting power from the track, as he said he is using a 9volt battery.
    He is not sending the signal back through the track, he is sending it through an RF transmitter, probably at 2.4 ghz.
    Dirty track can cause this, I KNOW from experience. Did you look at the video I posted above showing NO glitches with a camera that
    records to an SD card. Then look at this video:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0IBVvyEGEM
    you can see glitches caused by dirty track/intermittents caused by momentary shorts when using 2.4ghz RF systems.
    Notice that most glitches occur when running through turnouts.
    What does the camera going out of sight of the receiver have to do with anything, it RF, not line of sight. My 'expert opinions' but if you don't believe me you can always hook up a spectrum analyzer and see the interference.

    It's turnouts - not switches!!

    Al
     
  9. Inkaneer

    Inkaneer TrainBoard Member

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    Okay I seem to have left out some important information. So to clear up some confusion here, I use this camera on an Ntrak set up as well as on home layouts. No computer involved and all are analog DC. Power to the camera is via 9 volt battery. Signal is sent via RF transmitter which, if memory serves me correctly, is 2.4 ghz. So I think Alhoop on the right track but now the big question, other than clean track and no turnouts how do I correct the problem?
     
  10. alhoop

    alhoop TrainBoard Supporter

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    What will you use the camera for - check your trackwork/hidden track/quality movies/engineers view for operations/etal?
    You can get one of the cigarette lighter cameras on EBAY for five to ten dollars - put it on a flatcar
    and record until the SD card is full and then play it back on your computer. Of course it won't work for real
    time operations.
    With any of these cameras lighting is most critical.
    Can you post a video of a run around your layout.
    I don't know of a simple solution to your last question.There are some but they are very expensive.
    BTW are your glitches similar to the ones in the second video I linked to?
    Al
     
  11. alhoop

    alhoop TrainBoard Supporter

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    Not mentioned before but you should make sure your pulling power's wheels are spotless along with the track

    Al
     
  12. Carl Sowell

    Carl Sowell TrainBoard Supporter

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    OK, help me understand, please, as I want to do the camera thing too.

    If the camera is powered by a battery and does not depend on power or sending it's signal through the wheels and rails, then how can the cleanliness of wheels and rails, and the turnout frogs be an issue other than the effect they have on the loco performance ? ? ?

    Carl
     
  13. alhoop

    alhoop TrainBoard Supporter

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    Short answer - have you listened to an AM radio while running your trains?
    Any break between the pickup wheels and track or a momentary short when a metal wheel
    runs over a turnout frog creates static interference which is picked up by the
    receiver and displayed in the video. Have you watched the two videos I linked to?
    One shows interference to the RF link between camera and receiver , the other
    shows NO interference because the camera's video is recorded internally to a SD Card, ie no RF link.

    Here is a real life example:
    http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/gas-engines-142/11417070-2-4-ghz-interference-can-happen.html


    Al
     
  14. Inkaneer

    Inkaneer TrainBoard Member

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    Other than that is there anything I can do to eliminate the static?
     
  15. DrMb

    DrMb TrainBoard Member

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    One option would be to use a more powerful transmitter for the camera. The problem with that is space and power; although who says that the components of a camera car can't be distributed among two or more rail cars.
     
  16. RT_Coker

    RT_Coker TrainBoard Supporter

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    The following assumes that you have determined that the RF interference is from an intermittent connection between the locomotive and track.

    On a DC layout, a capacitor on the locomotive track connections should reduce the RF interference. The polarity of the capacitor will limit you to one direction (forward or reverse). Make sure you do NOT try to run in the other direction with the capacitor connected, it might blow up! I do not know what size would be best, but it would be like a “DCC-decoder-stay-alive” capacitor.

    A car with extra power pickups connected to the locomotive should also significantly reduce the RF interference.
    Bob
     
  17. hoyden

    hoyden TrainBoard Supporter

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    Keying off of Al's suggestion I bought one of the lighter cameras. Here is my first camera car prototype.
    View attachment 58805
    View attachment 58806
    I can vouch for the lack of interference in the video but the car's stability is less than desirable. There's a reason why cars utilize two trucks. Back to the drawing board.
     
  18. alhoop

    alhoop TrainBoard Supporter

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    Bob - you don't want to use an electrolytic capacitor even a non-polarized one. The reaction time(time constant would be too long to be effective), instead
    some manufacturers use a small value (0.001 uf to 0.1 ufd) and these are not polarity sensitive. I have a motorized chassis from Japan that has a 0.1 ufd cap across the motor terminals.

    Al
     
  19. alhoop

    alhoop TrainBoard Supporter

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    What did you have the camera mounted on - one truck ?LOL

    Al
     
  20. mgilger

    mgilger TrainBoard Member

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    You might try getting the camera as far away from the engine as possible. The engine would be the one that is more than likely generating the noise from either the engine or the wheel pick ups as mentioned by others here. So either put it farther back in the train or put some cars in front and put it at the lead end.
    Mark
    http://mmg-garden-rr.webs.com/
     

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