C-WW Thought you might like to know of a problem that has just started with my shay, Motor runs, but not the wheels, GREAT EH. Emailed Bachmann about it, waiting for reply, will let you know. [ March 29, 2006, 03:36 PM: Message edited by: watash ]
<font color="336633">Sounds like the same prob I had with my GP30, in that case it was a pin that went through the gear and into the bogie halfs, this pin was way to loose and the gear came out of mesh, looked at the other truck and it was fine.... </font>
I've had that problem also on a GP-30. And here to find that the wheels and gears and also the axle all are separite parts. The wheels on on end of the axle slips onto the metal axle, and then the gear slips over the axle to center it and then the other wheel slips over the axle and the wheels have plastic inserts that get lose and wobbly and slip and then goes the damn gear as well. I have found one way to fix this that Bachmann isn't going to be of any help with... they'll just send you the exact same thing you've taken out of the loco to replace with something better and get the same junk to replace the one that went bad and the new one will do it to in time. So What I did after Bachmann sent me the new replacement piece of junk. I looked at it and was like thats the wheel I need but its built the same way so I sent it back and got my money back. And then took the bad set os wheels and used a fingernail file on the plastic to scuff it up ti get rif of that shinnyness on them and put then back together, and used my NMRA "HO" standards gauge and made sure the gauge was correct and put a small seem of 2 part epoxy all the way around the axle covering all the plastic on the ends of the gear shaft that is a protrussion and the protrussion on the plastic insert in the wheel itself and left it set for 24 hours to dry (cure) and after it was dry the next day I tested it to see if it would relossen. And my therory worked and i'm running the same GP-30 today and that was 3 years ago. And one other thing before you go to epoxy this all together take some thinner and clean the plastic and metal axle so that NO oil or grease is evident on it or the epoxy wouldn't cure and it will happen all over again The surface to be epoxied MUST be clean and clear from any and everything. And the filing also gives the epoxy something to "BITE" when its applied to the areas to be rigid. The mesh on the axle thats supposted to hold the gear in place does do exactly what its suppost to and with heat generating in the truck it makes the plastic soft and thats what causes this to happen. And the only way to fix it and not want it to happen again is to make the whole wheel set and gear rigid with each other. Then the gear won't slip on the axle kinda like a bearing. the gear will spin yes and the axle that holds the wheels wouldn't. when you epoxy all this together it will hold the gear and the wheels to the axle and make it all rigid. The metal axle is only then a guide actually then it has no meaning really. Its only their to center the gear with the wheels. when before the metal axle was their to hold the gear and wheels in place and once the heat gets to it then you've got problems. Make it all rifid and it will work I asure you.....
Oh one other thing I forgot to say in that post before is, don't get any epoxy on the gear or the wheels themself!! If the gear gets any it will bind, and or glue itself rigid to the idler gears and stall your loco and burn it up. If the wheels get it, it can spread the epoxy on the rail you run it on if not completly dry (cured), or it will hesitate to get electrical flow to your motor!!! And it won't run. But if you get it on or in places use nail polish remover or acetone to remove excess or any thats in places it can not be. Do this while the epoxy is still tacky before it cures. Because if its not cleaned up before its cure you will not be able to remove it once is cure. The epoxy I use for things like this is "Elmers *PROBOND* Super-Fast Epoxy Cement" It usually is dry to the touch in 5 minutes so you'll need to work quicky and acutly. Try to make as less mistakes as possible. Its strenght is at a top in very strong!! It can handle 1500 pounds per square inch. It takes alot to break if its completly cure. It be almost impossible to break the bond in a loco because their is no where near 1500 pounds of presure per square inch anywhere in a loco... Unless your fixing a real one It takes a total of 24 hours to cure completly, and myself I let is set for 28 or 30 hours just to be on the safe side. But once cure you shouldn't have any more of these problems on any of the things you use the epoxy on it is a miracle that something so complicated can be fixed so fast, and easy, but it works! I done every Bachmann loco I own like this so the problem wouldn't persist on the rest of them in time. So if you try it and it works I believe if you have any other loco's made by Bachmann thats built like that or any other manufacture that builds their wheels sets simmilar to Bachmann illiminate the problem on them all. And once you do this and the epoxy is cure oil or grease will NOT affect it in any way. Alot of times you'll see that some adhesives soften when in contact with oil or grease. Don't worry about the epoxy. It withstands it. Read and follow all instructions to the brand of epoxy you buy closly and you'll see that it works, and works well [ 15 March 2001: Message edited by: 7600EM_1 ] [ 15 March 2001: Message edited by: 7600EM_1 ]
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Paul Templar: Thought you might like to know of a problem that has just started with my shay, Motor runs, but not the wheels, GREAT EH. Emailed Bachmann about it, waiting for reply, will let you know.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Paul .. good luck on hearing from Bachman! When I received my 3 truck shay from Dave, I found the whistle was broken off. I called Dave and he didn't seem to be interested in replacing it for me, telling me to "just glue it back on." Well .. when I pay $155 for a new engine, I expect it to be flawless, don't you? Anyway, I wrote a letter to Bachman telling them of my misfortune and asked them if they would replace it for me. That was three weeks ago and I have yet to hear a word!
Hi Bill (#16) I might also have another problem in getting it repaired or replaced, I weathered it. Did have an email from someone saying that the loco motor and gearbox was all that was under warranty, don't know about that really, have to wait and see.. Good job I've got two of these, at least I can still run one of them. (This one is fine, -- so far)
Paul, If you haven't already sent it back, perhaps you could do a little investigating to see if you have the same situation as those other fellows did with the diesels. Bachmann uses a hard smooth plastic universal coupling on the motor shaft which is also smooth, hence the need to give it something to 'bite' onto. It would be unsettling to send a 'weathered' engine back for repair. I would save that as a last resort. 2slim
Hi 2slim, Thanks for your reply, trouble is, if I start to take it all apart, Motor and gearbox etcetera, the warranty is no longer in effect. I don’t fancy losing out on a £120+ loco.
It would figure guys! After you've done something to a loco something would go wrong and I honestly believe Paul that loco's warranty is shot now that you mension it it painted and weathered. I think Bachmann will "reject" fixing or replacement from the fact of Bachmann warrenties... They will warrent anything factory related and failure to manufacturing not consummer customization. Your best bet to keep your loco in running shape is to do as I recommended to you or if someone else has a better sollution to help you. The warrenty on that Shay is helpless more or less to you, but I can be wrong they might have lifted that from their warrenties and only warrent the machanics and not the "WHOLE" loco.
Thought you might like to know what went on between Bachmann and myself. After a couple of emails, I can now send it back. Below is the second to last email from Rob. ---------------------- Dear Paul, Bachmann's lifetime limited warranty covers all motorized items. In the first year of ownership there is no charge for replacement/repair. Simply send item, along with proof of purchase, to Bachmann Service, 1400 E Erie Ave, Phila Pa, 19124. The weathering will not affect the warranty (however, the item may need replacement). Best regards, Rob Smentek
Paul, Well at least there isn't a charge! Maybe the Gods will be smiling on you and what needs to be fixed won't interfere with the weathered parts of the engine, so they can just fix it and return it. BTW I wouldn't do anything to your other shay until you feel comfortable that its not going to give you the same problems! Keep us posted. Best of luck 2slim
Too late, that was weathered the day I got it, and here it is. [ 22 March 2001: Message edited by: Paul Templar ]
Paul, I love that picture of the second Shay you got!!!! I can't help but compliment on them and the owner of yours they look great!!!!!
Hey John; Don't forget to mention to them what kind of lubricant to use on these cheap gears. Like what happened to my EL-5 Mike
Mike, Most of them already know what happens in excessive heat under certain kinds of oil and grease! And also know NOT to use a "cutting oil" on the plastic gears on metal axles. And also that it makes a mess after awhile. They all know this from years of being in the hobby. Its the dumb oil and grease that some companies make that say its the "best" but it more or less rips your loco's apart!!! Guys a word of caution, I used to use Labelle Lubercants, and found that it does NOT comply to Rivarossi loco's with the gears on the metal axles on the geared drivers. Mike used it and it attacked the gear and swollen the gear at the mesh and it would spin the gear but NOT the axle. It dislodged the gear so it worked as a bearing and wouldn't turn the drive wheels it made the gear slip on the axle. I used different types of lubercants over the years and I found that the best gear grease is in fact for boats!!! Its called "Synthetic White Lithium Marine Grease". After a fellow that showed me the difference in the grease I gave it a try and it works wonders on loco's gears, bearings, and NOISE! It quiets the loco down and doesn't let it get hot (the mechanics doesn't get hot) or the motor for that matter. What ever is used in this lube is beyond me but it absorbs heat and disperses it and extracts it from the motor and the gears. That way nothing gets hot but don't think that it keeps everything cold because in a practice run everything in friction will generate heat but not excessive!!! It will get warm but nothing thats going to dislodge anything like gear meshes or break other pins and points of contact. Like in the 4-6-2 Rivarossi that loco has problems dispersing heat and will fail if it gets to hot like what Watash said in another post about a gear pin sheering off that was caused by excessive heat and weakened the pin the gear rested and spun on. Ever since I used this lube one time, it changed my whole idea on oils and greases. All my locos now have it in their gear boxes and their journals. And its harmless to plastic, it woun't attack plastic or even the smallest mesh on a gear contact with an axle. And its sure not a "cutting oil" or grease. I found this out by trial and error and so did Mike. He just found out the hard way. I caught mine before it did alot of damage. I'm still trying to get the loco of his the correct parts and get it to run alot better then it is from a simple mistake that noone really thought about. The sad thing about this is that I've only found Rivarossi to have this problem on their new loco's. If the "Allegheny" 2-6-6-6 has the same drive train like the EL-5 Riv5400 and those era loco's have it will be just the same for the gear is made from plastic, mounted on a metal axle. And it all comes from the type of plastic used to make the gear. Mantua uses plastic gears today and I yet haven't found anything to hurt them. Its a different type of plastic Mantua uses compared to the plastic Rivarossi uses. Just a word of precaution..BEWARE RIVAROSSI OWNERS
John, Yes, most modelers do know this from years of experience, but there are some folks that are just starting out in this hobby so information & suggestions like this can go a long way to help them avoid problems like I had. A simple mistake can cause just as many headaches as cheaply made products can.
A Bachman that does not work properly? That is obsurd. These Spectrums are some of the greatest running locomotives out there today. Oh! exept for the four 2-8-0's, the two 4-8-2's that I owned and both of the Shays that my friend has. I still have one of the 2-8-0's and it is in the box right now waiting for me to remember to take it to the post office and back to Bachman it goes. Maybe we can get the shays right with the info from these post's.
