I'd like the option to pay for my stuff when I pre order, if it don't get released I can get a refund or credit towards something else. Why do I say that, well those nice loewy scheme NP F3's that IM was making would've made a handy addition to my fleet because I had the cash to pre order them when I did. currently though I'm waiting on those SP&S Atlas cabeese, and some nice atlas RS3's that lowell smith models has custom run for SP&S. maybe I should order more when they come out.
If it's a completely new item, I can ALMOST understand. If it's an existing item that is to be released in a different road or number, why is there such a long wait ( Bluford, IM) ??? If you're gonna' paint it for AT&SF or Pennsy, paint LOTS of 'em !!! If you're gonna' paint them for EJ&E or FEC, paint less of them. If your not sure, release undecs only !!! My first experience with the pre-order thing was M/T's Red Circus Train. It wasn't handled properly, and I HATED it, but I eventually got the entire train. Athearn's F45 went OK, and Kato's E5 Zephyr went very smooth. I once said I wouldn't pre-order again, but found I was missing out on things I really liked. Then they were hard to find and cost more. I can remember when I could say,"I'm gettin' a B&M boxcar today", and take off for the LHS. If he didn't have one, he ordered it, and it was mine in less than a week. Whatever happened to that ??? Now I gotta' wait a year, and hope 9 million other people want it, too !!! I guess the pre-order thing is here, and that's just how it is. Someone had posted a pre-order story that went very well for video gamer. That's cool !!! If you wanna' see the other end of it, look up '80s NASCAR car owner Jim "J.D." Stacy. Unbelievable !!! OK, I'm done...for now !!!
Yes, a sure way to make sure a model isn't producted is to not let the company know we want it by not pre-ordering. I'm sure glad that a lot of people are smart enough to pre-order so we keep getting new models and road names several times a year.
I took my own topic slightly off track, but it is a logical extension for me to attempt to understand 11 month delays from "reserve" to shipment of the item. Having worked for a large multi national corporation, I know that the marketing functions and product developer has many tools for determining whether a new product concept has promise for success. That seems to me to be a much more reliable way than attempting to test the market potential by offering an item and counting the number reserved by potential customers. I think the computer people call this ether ware.
If the manufacturer is not certain an item will be produced until they see how many might be sold they should ask for 'expressions of interest', reservations should only be called for once it is decided production will go ahead. I've never paid money in advance for a reserved model and wouldn't give my custom to a dealer who asks for it. I've never bought the 'Chinese' problem as the cause for lengthy waits for N scale models when I see how many HO models some of those same manufacturers have brought out while we have been waiting. Has anyone counted how many HO steamers the company who promised the Pennsy M1 has made in the meantime, I've lost count.
I owned/operated a small hobby shop back in the 1970s. How many to order was always a crap shoot, I can't count how many times I had people coming in looking for a item that I just sold the last one. Then when you order a little more of another item, they sit on a shelf forever. Pre-ordering is the best tool available, you pretty much know almost everyone will pickup there pre-order. I'd love to see all the people that are saying not to pre-order try to run a manufacturing company or hobby shop just to see them fail at manufacture/order the correct amount.
But that is how Capitalism works. Someone takes on risk and if successful reaps profit. Profit is the reward for risk taking. The preorder system is thought to remove the risk to ensure profit. But maybe it does more than that. Maybe it causes potential buyers to not preorder. Like it or not but most people are still endowed with moral character and preordering something is akin to giving your word that you will do something. A lot of people won't preorder in N scale as that is tantamount to giving your word that you will buy it and there is no guarantee that a prordered product will be acceptable. It doesn't matter what the name of the company is for all have had disappointments in their products and that goes for Kato and Atlas as well as Bachmann. Also, let's not think that "fire sales" ala LifeLike resulted in a loss. I have never heard of any company having a sale and losing money. The only exception is bankruptcy and court ordered sale of assets. LifeLike's sale came at a time when they were looking to sell off their model RR business to free up cash for their other product lines. In doing so they proved there was indeed a market for their GP20's and FA/B 1's. And while they may not have made a huge profit I doubt if they took a loss.
If N scale is to grow then the preorder system has to go. I am not sure it is a viable enough system for manufacturers to rely on. Case in point. PCM/BLI announced N&W H-2 hoppers then cancelled them because of not enough preorders. Meanwhile BLMA produced N&W Topgons which not only sold out but have been rerun at least once maybe twice. The Topgons were a one railroad car whereas the H-2 was used by several roads. Another case in point. PCM/BLI announced the PRR M1 then cancelled it for lack of preorders. Bachmann then makes a B&O EM1 with no preorders. Both were one RR locomotives. Requiring preorders then cancelling the project does not advance N scale. That cancellation means that product won't be touched by anyone. How does that advance N scale?
Good point. HO abounds in product not available in N scale. For instance there are four HO manufacturers that have made PRR K4 locomotives. Most have had more than one run also. Three of these manufacturers also participate in N scale. Yet no PRR steam products have been designed in N scale in 50 years. Maybe it is a conspiracy to keep the N scale market small so that people will flock to HO where the profit margins are better. That China production snafu alibi just doesn't cut it anymore.
I don't mind the wait for the most part if it will be produced. I do have some passenger cars on pre-order for like 7 years now and at this point I've stopped caring about them as I figure they won't be done . If I preorder something , I save up the money for it and earmark it in a excel file so I can't accidentially spend it . I preordered a NP F3 too..but the money is there waiting so no issues hen it comes out. Peter
I don't think there is any excuse for waiting 8 years plus for anything. I cancelled my order back in 2012!
Yeah, I doubt we'll ever see those M1's. I'm not sure who besides FDT is even listing them anymore (let alone taking reservations). I am definitely not a fan of these "solicit preorders and see what happens" fishing expeditions. Seems like amateur hour to me. Cheers, -Mark
I preordered a couple locomotives May 2010. Manufacturer has amended delivery date at leadt 6 times since. Latest arrival estamate is next month. Not holding my breath.... The decoders i bought for them are lost under a pile of dust somewhere. Brian
Bad idea. There have been many instances of individuals pre-paying and getting nothing... including a refund.
There has to be a better way. I don't like having to pre-order without knowing if I will have the funds to pay for the item(s)... and commit to a hobby shop or e-tailer that wants my credit card on file to charge it... when I may not be able to afford it.
I like the 'Expression of Interest' method of estimating the viability of an item to be produced. Of course... there are problems here too. Everyone may 'express their interest' without having a REAL interest in the item. Only when you 'put your money where your ... expression of interest is' will a manufacturer really feel comfortable with producing. So... we get back to the pre-order and put your credit card on the line method to make the order a reality. Currently... there are some wholesalers that 'stick their necks out' and add-on to the pre-orders to make-up for potential shortages. I don't know how often those wholesalers have been burned by their faith in missing pre-orders to sell out.
maybe in MRRing, but it's worked for me so far as a gamer. like I said though, it would be a nice option to have when placing a pre order.
