1st of, Happy New Years !!! I have been going back and forth between NCE and Digitrax. I was sold on the NCE, until today when I spent a few hours reading. After reading I have decided the Digitrax Zep is a better system for me. $169.99 @ woo woo woo I like the jump option. But, what really caught my eye is how the zep can be used as a booster. Now granted (only) if I expand. If I do I can grab another zep system and link the two for less than a booster. What I can't really find is the cons of the Zep system other than the old interface. I have read Digitrax isn't the easiest to use either. So, I am looking for some cons if anyone has any. Thanks, Burgh
I had a Digitrax system when I first went to DCC. There was nothing wrong with the system, but it was difficult to learn and use. I now use a NCE Power Cab system with a 5amp booster. It is much easier to use and you can't find better folks than those at NCE. In my view, their product support is the best in the business. Just my opinion of course. John
I have had the NCE Power Cab for some years. When I bought it, I sent in the registration card. Some fail to do that. About a year later, the back light on the display failed. Mailed it in and NCE fixed it for free. Rich
jlundy46, Thanks you for the reply !! I have read a few comments on different forums and all about it being challenging to use. Than I see youtube video's and it doesn't seem bad, but they don't show how long it took them to figure it out either. Hmm, (Please) ! Do not take this the wrong, I am asking since you have used it and had hands on experience. (It was difficult to learn and use) --- Is this due to the lack of instruction or poorly written/ explained? Aww, or do you think it was on the lines of say a first time pc user? They are overwhelmed with everything it can do and not knowing how to get it to do what they want.. Once again, I am (not) being rude or anything, just asking so I can get a better idea/understanding !! Than the Zep is 3 amp and the power cab is 2. Doe's that 1 amp make a difference on a smaller N-scale layout? Thanks !! Burgh
I started my layout several years ago and purchased a Digitrax Zephyr to operate it. I too liked the idea of additional throttles from the old DC systems. I don't have any experience with any other system. I didn't find it difficult to use starting from scratch. Attach the power supply to the Zephyr, run 2 wires to rail A&B, turn on track power, press the loco button and enter the loco #, press loco again to select it, select forward or reverse then advance the throttle. Not complicated. Hope this helps. Harold
Burgh The Best advice is for you to go try the various DCC systems at LHSs, club & home layouts & MR shows. Talk w/ them about their systems & try to use them if they'll let you. Most places don't have any problems w/ letting you do it. You should really try to get a hands on feel for each throttle to see which you like best. Ask them alot of questions about their system especially what they like & DON"T like. Also each system has their own Yahoo Group forum. There's also general DCC forums there. Look here to find them: http://groups.yahoo.com/neo Then read thru all the recent conversations & you'll see what kinds of problems they have. In fact do that before going to see the systems in your area so you have a better idea what questions you have. .Along w/ my friends I'm using NCE. It's so easy to use & their customer support is great! Have used Digitrax at a module club & did not like it. Think their manuals must be written by alien geeks. They are the only ones that know how their system works but can't let us modelers know anything because they don't speak our language. Theirs was radio & they were always having problems at shows. Oh yes your questions have been asked & answered on this & other forums many times over. So do some reading back thru this DCC forum & the others.
If you are willing to sink some more money into the Zephyr Digitrax system, purchase the PR3XTRA SoundFX USB Decoder Programmer which is basically a connection from your computer to the command station and decoders installed. You then download Decoder Pro (a freebie from JMRI) and your headaches with programming will be simplified. Once you do this, the simplicity of NCE isn't as much of an attraction. Search around for some videos demo'ing Decoder pro. http://www.digitrax.com/products/computer-control/pr3xtra/
I agree with Cajon. Test different DCC before you purchase one, if you can. I have heard some limitations on NCE, but havent been on a layout with that control. Before I bought my Digitrax Super Chief, I was able to run and use the Sacramento model railroad clubs layout with Digitrax. I liked it had the capacity I wanted, and that you can expand in every way you would ever want. Plus side was the goof proof replacement policy they have on any of thier products. I have used it a few times, and I was very happy with it. Updating the products was very simple and very cost effective, including decoders. They have a support line both online ( which I never get a reply), or on the phone. New people using the Digitrax throttles find them easy to figure out, and Loconet is a very good contol system. Programming any decoder will seem hard untill you figure out ther are just a few you need to know (addressing, start voltage, mid voltage, top voltage, and maybe acceleration/ decelleration.) JMRI coupled with a PR3 makes decoder programming as simple as point and click for almost all decoders. If you want to install occupancy detection or signaling, you will be able to do it with even the Zephyr. Remember to put a programming track connected fron the command station to a electricly isolated piece of track. A double pole double throw switch works great so the track is useable when not programming. Digitrax has been the control system on my layout for the last 10 years, and it has proven reliable and very durable. Good luck with finding on that works for you. Jim
Thanks for the info !! I am two for two so far. I went to LHS and they only had a MRC Prodigy that look like it has been on the shelf for a good while. I also went to a hobby store 28 miles away near work and they also had a MRC Prodigy in display case. Neither, carried the Digitrax or NCE. They could special order one. So I am waiting to hear back from a club and see if I can stop in. Other option is wait till later this month and see what they have at Greenberg's Train & toy show. Oh yes your questions have been asked & answered on this & other forums many times over. So do some reading back thru this DCC forum & the others. Thanks for pointing that out! I have been doing research for few months now, and always end up getting side tracked reading post about model railroading. You starting reading and someone suggest something and I end up looking up what they are taking about and hours have gone by. I'll leave it at that... Thanks again, Burgh
I really don't know how to answer your question without doing a full on comparison. Best thing is to try them out and ask users what the biggest hurdle to getting rolling was. I can only add what I have read and heard from others as I am an NCE user at home. So I am bias and will likely try to support my decision. The group I run with has Digitrax, not the Zephyr, and it has been a couple years now and I am still learning tidbits that I can apply to each one. It sounds like you have some clear growth in mind so maybe sit down with a list of givens and druthers is in order. You won't go wrong with either system. Just do it Man!
It can be really hard to find Hobby Shops that actually have systems set up that you can try. You might have better luck visiting clubs, or at shows, asking the operators about their systems and maybe being invited to try it out. Sounds like this is just what you are doing so you are on the right track. Brad Myers Peninsula Ntrak / AsiaNrail My Blogs: http://www.n-scale-dcc.blogspot.com/ http://www.palisadecanyonrr.blogspot.com/ http://tokyo-in-nscale.blogspot.com/
Digitrax with a PR3 and using The below software. http://www.perecli.com/rrauto/ Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
When I finally decided to go whole-hog with DCC, I did a lot of research into the various systems. I'm lucky in that I was able to run Digitrax, NCE, Lenz and even Rail Lynx (which technically isn't DCC, but operates much the same). I heard and read a lot of bad things about MRC decoders and their system, so even though the propaganda makes it sound like the best thing out there, I didn't consider it...especially after reading about all the problems with the MRC sound decoders in the Athearn Big Boys and Challengers...which REALLY was a huge problem for Athearn. My goals were to buy the top-of-the-line starter set, rip out all my old rat's nest of DC wiring, and buy a bunch of decoders to get me up and running and I had ZERO brand-loyalty. I just wanted what would be "the best" for my purposes. After fiddling around for about a year, and listening to all the fan-boys of each system give me the sales pitch, a clear winner was Digitrax for a few reasons, which I'll list...some of which will probably be inconsequential to anybody but me, and some that aren't inconsequential. (1) Being a newbie at DCC five years ago, I felt like I needed to get a system that the majority of my train buddies who already had DCC up and running had chosen. Digitrax was the clear winner, and I used my train-friends relentlessly for a while during my learning phase. (2) I wanted a system that was not going to go out of business (had been around for a while) and wasn't made in China or Indonesia that I could be almost certain would support me at least 20 years into the future when I'll be so old I won't give a damn. Digitrax was the one, and has a GREAT no-hassle replacement policy for equipment and decoders that is the best in the business. (3) My son and I are computer-literate and so, ease of use wasn't something that really made much difference to me. I figured once I learned how to use whatever system I chose, it'd be second nature...and I was correct...Digitrax operation is second nature to both my son and I now. However, NCE was the clear winner in the ease-of-use dept, but it had other drawbacks. (4) I wanted a system that would allow me to run analog/DC engines without decoders if I wanted. Digitrax (and Lenz too) allows running an analog/DC engine or motive power lashup using Digitrax throttles using "0" as an address. It's not perfect, but as long as you're running your analog/DC engine, it won't damage it, but park it for a few minutes, it might cook the motor as stationary analog/DC engines "sing" when they're not moving on address "0". NCE instantly obsoletes your analog/DC engines and has no possibility to run them until you install a decoder. (5) I wanted ease of upgrading whenever new technology comes out, and I knew from my reading that Digitrax offers a very cheap and speedy upgrading service for old throttles and command stations for $50 or less and a two-week turn-around. That's hard to beat. (6) I wanted easy computer compatibility so I could run trains with my laptop, while my son and I switched with the Park City and Evanston Locals. Although I haven't done it yet, Digitrax and Loconet allows easy automation. (7) Speaking of Loconet, after doing my research, I came to the conclusion that Loconet (a Digitrax exclusive feature) was really a great thing to have, and easy easy to use. With it and the appropriate hardware, I can can have ALL the bells and whistles of an advanced model railroad, which includes things such as train detection, signaling, automation, dispatching, turnout control, etc., etc. The other systems seemed more complex to me, but by the time I looked seriously at Loconet, I was already sold on Digitrax. (8) I wanted easy addition of as many throttles as I felt I needed to operate both at home and at shows, and I wanted Radio, and several layouts that I ran on which used Digitrax Radio Throttles were extremely easy to use with instant and positive train control at all times. The Lenz and NCE systems I ran on had problems. (9) I like the way Digitrax looks. It looks "railroady" to me, and the throttles fit my hand, are easy to use and intuitive, and have a "patina" about them that the other plasticky, modern-looking hardware from Lenz and NCE lack. However, it's a matter of taste, and maybe you'll like the design of the other systems better than Digitrax. So, I bit the bullet and bought a Digitrax Super-Empire Builder Radio starter set, along with a power supply and three UT4 Radio utility throttles for other operators. I can run two trains easily from my Digitrax Super Throttle as it has two separate knobs for each train. I also bought 6 UP5 Loconet/interconnect panels for each of my modular Layout Design Elements, a PM42 Quad Power Manager (and divided my layout into three separate power districts) and a Soundtraxx PTB-100 programming track booster to easily program sound decoder equipped engines. Lastly, I bought about a grand's worth of decoders to start converting my large roster of engines to DCC. Here's a photo of what's underneath my portable layout: Here's a photo of my grown son and partner-in-crime running two trains at the Evanston Roundhouse Festival in 2012: Additionally, several friends of mine who also run with us at the shows, but have their own small layouts at home decided to go with Digitrax also. Two of them went with Zephyrs and supplemented them after running with wireless throttles on my layout with a Digitrax Super throttle, and one UT4Radio Utility Throttle, a UR91 (or UR92 Duplex) Radio and IR receivers, and a couple of UP5 Loconet Panels. They are extremely happy with their decision and they bring their own throttles when they come to run on my layout. When I got all my DCC stuff, I still didn't know about what kind of wire to buy, or what kind of connectors to use, or how to attach my unknown wire to my benchwork underneath...so, I modified an old 6' bridge module with a crossover and a programming track, and used that to experiment with before tearing into my layout. This was a good idea, and it made it easy for me to make little mistakes, correct them, and move on to the next mistake without spending a lot of money and time doing the wrong things. I'd suggest that you do the same to learn how to use your equipment and ask here as to what kind of hardware to put under your layout when you get your Zephyr so you can upgrade easily when the time comes (if it ever comes).
Thank you all for the info.. I was very close to ordering the NCE Power Cab unit a few days ago. Yesterday, I decided since work was slow I would read more about both. (Plus helps time pass on a 10 hr shift). So I was back to NCE or Digitrax. I didn't feel as thought I gave Digitrax a fair shot basing my decision on... 1. not as user friendly as the NCE -- has been stated hundreds of times, but.... Everyone's learning curve is different, level of patients,taste, and needs. I could probably play around with the Zep for a few and take off.. But !! if I don't use it for a few weeks am I going to have to keep relearning which is moving backwards and limiting my run times. NCE systems from what I have read are very user friendly and people are able to pick it up and hit the ground running in no time. This is a very good point, but sometimes things can be so easy they are boring. 2. Cost - Granted they are very close in price. Zep is about 30 or so dollars more. But! I would rather spend the 30 more (NOW) rather than 100 or more later. 3. The NCE is a hand held unit, looks cool as for shape. To me a huge cable remote. When I thought about it, how much walking am I going to be doing on a small layout?? Zep can me mounted and I don't have to worry about it getting dropped or not paying attention because my 1 year old is getting into something and laying it on the display. ( my luck one of the loco's would run into it). The Zep looks more like a control center. All the buttons and Knobs, and reminds me of a old school HO power unit. Granted, they are both good !! They (both) shine in their own ways. This is the part that makes picking 1 over the other harder. I would love to be able to use both for a little while. Play around controlling a layout, climb under the display and see how they did the wiring, ect. For me this is key. I know my weak and strong points. I am very good at looking at stuff and duplicating it, also if I need to making changes to fit my needs. Also, I think like a service tech. So seeing with my own two eyes is worth more than reading. But ! I have yet been able to do this so I have to get my info from the web. I have found ton's of info and pic's which help, but it's very easy getting side tracked. I am also a firm believer in paying attention to detail. Robert3985 is very good at this also and adds it to his replies. ;-) Thank you ! Everyone that adds info, helps continue to keep my gears spinning and ideas coming, so thank you all also !!!! I really don't think I can make a (bad) decision with either. I can make the not so right decision though for me. This would apply to later growth of either my display, knowledge, or idea's I would like to try. I can only plan for the future so much, but am trying to prevent headaches or waste of money later. Plus quick decisions which cost you more in the long run. Sometimes! People are just looking for a little reasurance that they are making a fairly wise choice, and using others experience and knowledge to guide them. ROFL! I'm still on the wire as to which one. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Robert3985, Lol! You like putting me in a tailspin, than adding pic's of your layout to the mix. Very neat wiring job ! Your layout gives me something to aim for in the future once I get (alot) of hands on under my belt... Thanks again, everyone !!! Burgh / Chris
Chris, I have cherry-picked a couple of statements that seem to feature prominently in your decision-making. I hope you won't take offense to my comments...they are not intended to be personal, especially since we don't know each other, but I assure you I have only good will toward you. Looks and feelings are important in so many decisions we humans make, but they impart confounds to more rational decision-making. You will be happiest when your feelings let you like the looks of something once your rational assessment points out the real benefits of one system over another. Even if you can never be in a position to try either system, you can glean from their listed specs what capabilties they have to offer you. So, what capabilities are most important to you? You should compile a list of critical factors, and then assign them a priority with weighting. If power is the number one criterion, it gets five points (5). The next most important criterion gets four points, and so on. Or start with 10 points. The objective is to add up all the assigned values and see which system comes out looking like the best from a simple bit of arithmetic. If your heart then imposes its preferences, you will have to live with your decision, but it may not be one reflected by the numbers. I have thought about this a great deal: you can learn to love anyone deeply. It's a matter of mindset and interest. If you want to do it, you'll do it. It's the same with a DCC system. Once you make an educated choice, you'll love your choice. I won't say I didn't have to call Digitrax once and ask for some help...which the guy on the other end seemed quite willing to provide me...and it was the only time...but I spent time with my new 'love' just as you and I would with our choice of mates in an attempt to learn why they do what they do the way they do it. I only ever go into my manual, now eight years later, to figure out how to close or open a given Ops Switch which changes what the base station will do for me. I think I have had to do that three times in those eight years, mostly to clear the memory of the stack of addresses I've used. So, rather than wring your hands with feelings and neat-looking thingies, I would ask you to take a sheet of paper and rank-order a list of capacities or capabilities, or characteristics, that your system must have for you to enjoy using DCC. Assign a score to each system's match for those capabilities, and then look soberly at the sums. They'll tell you more than what photographs will.
C0verton -- Chris, I have cherry-picked a couple of statements that seem to feature prominently in your decision-making. I hope you won't take offense to my comments... I absolutely did !! HAHA, Just having fun with you !! No not at all. After reading it I knew (exactly) what manufacture I was going with. Hats off to everyone for the help ! Burgh / Chris
