How reliable are they? And can they be safely powered with a 9 volt battery? I'm working on a small portable layout and was thinking that if these work reliably over time and can be powered by a 9 volt battery maybe I could put them to use for something other than taking up space in my parts box. The plan: A single track main line with reversing loops at each end. A Ztrack 9VDC Snail Speed Controller to power the locomotive and a 2nd 9 volt battery to power/throw the relay and switches using the 8589 activation track to automate it. Wiring it should be simple enough isolation all 4 rails at both forks of each switch and one 8589 activation track in the middle of each loop to activate the 8947 and reverse the polarity of the middle section and throw the switchs Will this work? Am I thinking correctly?
David, I might be completely wrong....and I'm sure someone will correct me if I am....but I believe all of the Marklin accessories (switches and relays) work on the AC power from their transformer. I know their track switches (turnouts) do. I've never used their equipment to make a return loop, though. Good luck,
David, Thom is right, all Marklin solenoid accessories require 10V AC. A couple of the semaphores require an additional 16V AC. If you need to control turnouts with DC, you need to look at Rokuhan or get a DC-to-AC converter. I've used 8589 track circuit and found it reliable. You just need to remember that the switch will trigger as each truck passes over. I haven't used the 8947: you can do the same thing with a couple of relays from Radio Shack (some of which can be driven by DC). Also the Snail controller is a pulsed DC, which may make DC relays go crazy. One additional thought: If you have the space for reversing loops, have you considered eliminating the turnout and running a parallel track? Hope this helps, Mark
There is some confusion going on. As I understand the Snail controller will be used only for operating the trains, so that's a non issue. Relays and solenoids should work fine with battery DC power, just like light bulbs, they're universal. The question is, 9V is enough or not? Make sure use only momentary switches for the turnout operation. Test the turnouts with a 9V battery before go too far.
exactly The snail speed controller will only be powering the locomotive itself. I just finished tearing one of the relays apart and it's nothing more than a wire wrapped around a hollow tube to make a electro magnet. It will work just fine on AC or DC. I did a little experimenting with a 9 volt battery and it will activate / throw the relay and the switches just fine. Now for some testing to see just how long the battery will last throwing 2 switches and 2 relays at once (2nd relay will be a 8589 for LED signal lighting)
Since Lajos is generally right (Although we generally don't mention it), I figured an test was in order. Tested two Marklin turnouts that would switch with the Marklin transformer and do not switch using a 9V battery (either polarity if that makes a difference). MTL turnouts would switch with the 9V battery. Hopes this helps, Mark PS: Well, it works for David...a fine kettle of fish! All I can say is I haven't bought any Marklin turnouts in 20 years so maybe things have changed.
Lajos is 100% correct. I've used 9v DC for years on Marklin solenoids. The key here is to get a good, quick burst of sustained power. You want something that is going to "snap" the solenoid into its new position. Lots of transformers don't have the sustained amperage to do the trick - there are lots of capacitor discharge devices out there that work well. You also want a short burst of power - leaving the current flowing through that solenoid will produce HEAT - and that is eventually destructive to the tiny magnet wires that are wrapped hundreds of times to create the solenoid. A quick burst will make it move - a long slow, weak current will just slowly cook it to death. Best, -Robert
I don't want to belabor the issue here since David seems to be happy with his results, but I would like to clear up some misconceptions. Both Lajos and Robert are correct as far as it goes: An ideal solenoid doesn't care how its powered: the magnetic field is developed through the change in voltage. When the voltage doesn't change, there is no magnetic field and the solenoid simply becomes a space heater. But to a solenoid, there is a big difference between AC and DC. The 10VAC from the Marklin throttle actually provides a 20V swing. Here's the output of my Marklin "Blue" unit. From a more real world stand point, the solenoid designer has to consider the power source. With a 20 volt swing, 10VAC allows the design to use smaller, more resistive wire in the coil than a 10VDC supply. Additionally, the AC source is switching 120 times per second while the DC gives you only one chance to switch. I would not expect a coil designed for 10VAC to work reliably at less than about 18VDC. Regarding the Marklin turnouts, I unsuccessfully tried a 9V battery back in the 80s and was a little surprised that a 9V battery worked. Since Sunday is my "trains day", I decided to round up all the Marklin turnouts I have, pull out the test equipment and redo that experiment. I have a total of 4 remaining Marklin turnouts: 2 from the mid-1980s (recycled), 1 from the mid-1990s (unused) and one early 21st century (NIB). All will switch using the power shown above from the Marklin unit. With a new 9V battery, the 1980s units will not switch , the 1990s unit will switch in one direction only and the newest one switches normally. The coils that didn't work, have a resistance several times larger than the ones that did. Here's an example of the waveform for a successful coil activation: Notice the space heater region, where the coil is just a load on the battery and the power drops a volt. This sets limits on the number of coils that can be turned on at once. (I think I feel another experiment coming on) Finally, remember that a battery has an internal resistance that grows over time that limits the amount of current it can supply. But who am I say anything if it's working for people. My little experiment had mixed results. Hope I didn't bore and... Hope this helps, Mark
In general you really don't need to operate your turnouts if you only want to have a reverse loop in each end, because there is no problem running into a switch in wrong position. The tounge is springoperated, so the wheels will open the switch. Some of the engines with a light running wheel at the front may derail, but all 4 axcel F7 and similar engines will work well without throwing the switch in the correct position. But, you need to change the polarity when you enter the track in the "wrong" direction. That can be done with an automatic polar switching unit of the same type you use with DCC reverse loops. And you only need one Circuit if you connect it to the single line between the 2 turnouts. Cut the tracks on all tracks in the Y on both switches. May be 9V is not enough to operate this unit?
