Atlas Locomotives

Seated Viper Aug 4, 2014

  1. Seated Viper

    Seated Viper TrainBoard Member

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    I use ordinary analogue DC power, with a Kato controller, rather than Digital.

    I have an Atlas RSD4/5, catalogue reference 42329, bought new about 3 years ago. It has always been "weak" in that it requires a lot of throttle to make it do anything. I have an Atlas RS1 - 44025 - which I bought used and which seems to be going the same way. I have been thinking about using them paired with other (stronger) locomotives. I had a chat with my local model railway shop's owner this morning, and he suggests that the magnets have gone or are going. Given the small size of these things in N, he feels it is probably best not to try replacing the magnets, but to replace the whole motor. Would the best way of doing that be to buy a new chassis, and not necessarily of the same make? I'm thinking here of Green Max or similar. A friend suggests that I might have motors which have no fault at all, just lower gearing than is usual.

    Your thoughts, please!

    Regards,

    Pete Davies
     
  2. John Moore

    John Moore TrainBoard Supporter

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    Probably a couple of things that need clarification. Have they lost pulling power or maybe it is just the newer slow speed motors that give a more realistic top end rather than a scale 130 mph. A perceptive slowing down from what one had originally and more throttle needed to move would most likely suggest a good cleaning and re lube job. Old stiff lube can definitely rob one of power whether in the gear train or motor bearings. I would try the simplest and cheapest thing first before I would spend money on a new motor. And also you did not state whether these are DC or DCC.
     
  3. Seated Viper

    Seated Viper TrainBoard Member

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    Thank you, John.

    DC.

    There is a degree of being slower than I remember when I first bought them, which then suggests a third cause of the slow running - need for a clean-up. I believe most if not all of my Atlas roster has the slow speed motors.

    Regards,

    Pete Davies
     
  4. rogergperkins

    rogergperkins TrainBoard Member

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    Mike Fifer from Fifer Hobby posted a youtube video about lubrication of n-scale locomotives that may be of interest.
     
  5. Seated Viper

    Seated Viper TrainBoard Member

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    Thank you, Roger. I'll have a look.

    Regards,

    Pete Davies
     
  6. WPZephyrFan

    WPZephyrFan TrainBoard Member

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    Interesting topic. I have more Atlas locos than anything else and the only problem that I've had is one GP30 that doesn't always run. The light comes on but it'll just sit there. If I turn the armature with my fingers, it'll start running fine. Someone suggested that it might have a broken winding or something.
    I'm curious about storage. Some of my locos are still in the jewel boxes and I've never operated them. I'm guessing that I might have to clean the old lube out and re-lube?
     
  7. John Moore

    John Moore TrainBoard Supporter

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    Problem is that a number of manufacturers have used a heavy grease rather than a light oil especially in gear boxes. As the more volatile or aromatic components eventually evaporate this leaves an even heavier if not a almost solid clump of grease that actually can inhibit the movement or cause a significant amount of resistance to actually slow down the loco. Case in point is I have some Bmann doodlebugs that sat overlooked in a storage case for a number of years until just recently. Upon coming across them and checking with a 9 volt battery only 1 out of 4 had the wheels turn. The others just had the light come on. Bmann is notorious in slathering on that heavy white grease in gear boxes and it seems the more the merrier. My cure all will be to remove the shell and drop the whole chassis trucks and all in a warm water ultra sound bath with Dawn Detergent and let it run through several times. That will soften up and remove some of the grease. After a good rinse and about a day to dry I will apply a light plastic safe oil to motor bearings and gear boxes. That should be sufficient to get everything turning again and the light oil will mix with the residual grease thinning it out. So the next time I drop the mech in the ultra sound the rest of that danged grease will be gone. I service my locos about once a year and how I overlooked these I guess I have to rack it up to old geezeritis fogetus alotus symptom. I also mark my loco storage box with the date of last service and test run.

    I do note that some people use an electrical solvent but I tend to steer away from that just because of the fumes and it tends to be messier than using the ultra sound bath.
     
  8. WPZephyrFan

    WPZephyrFan TrainBoard Member

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    Thanks, John. That's good to know. My problem for a long while was not having a layout, but still continuing to buy locos and cars!
     
  9. P50P

    P50P TrainBoard Member

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    I always start with the simple stuff - ensuring that the track connections are tight, and the track, wheels, and pick-ups are clean.

    I just bought a used Trainman Set on eBay; it was opened but never assembled. First, I made sure the True Track pieces were assembled tightly (which is more difficult, IMHO, than plain track). Next, I ran an ordinary pink eraser over the track; it came back black, so it apparently did some good.

    I have no idea how old this set is! I put the loco on the track, and sometimes it needs a bit of a tap (downward, on top), the wake up and go.

    Before I'd worry about getting in to lube, I'd run the loco for a while without a consist. Consider it breaking in. Let the brushes and commutators clean each other; they may have gathered a patina.

    That also brings up that I'd expect the brushes to go before the magnets, but given the age on my eyeballs and the size of the motor, I'd replace the whole motor rather than attempt to play with its innards.

    And yeah, lube can thicken to sticky gunk over time, so that might also be necessary to fix.
     
  10. Calzephyr

    Calzephyr TrainBoard Supporter

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    Sorry... but I failed physics in college... took it over and still didn't pass. :(

    So... aren't permanent magnets... ummmmm... permanently magnetized???
     
  11. greatdrivermiles

    greatdrivermiles TrainBoard Member

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    Yes but there are many reasons that a magnet can lose its magnetic force. Heat being one. (though you would melt down the rest of the loco before getting the heat high enough to demagnetize a magnet in a motor.)

    Also in the question of the GP30 above. Sounds more like a dirty commutator. Get some alcohol and a qtip and give it a cleaning.
     
  12. P50P

    P50P TrainBoard Member

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    Impact is another way to demagnetize, although it's more easily done on a straight bar magnet than a curved magnet in a motor.

    The commutator could also be cleaned with a burnishing tool. (Haven't seen one in decades, but I used to clean relay contacts in mainframe computers and peripherals back when.)
     
  13. Seated Viper

    Seated Viper TrainBoard Member

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    Thanks for your various comments, folks. The offending locomotive has now been run with and without a consist, and there is an application of Bullfrog curing as I type this. How I missed it before must be down to the symptom John Moore mentioned!

    Regards,

    Pete Davies
     
  14. P50P

    P50P TrainBoard Member

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    So it's just been skidding?

    You must have my kind of ears, more decorative than functional, not to hear that it's running and going nowhere. ;)

    Everyone thinks it's a big problem, but it's not (it's snot). [insert groans here]
     
  15. John Moore

    John Moore TrainBoard Supporter

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    You mean the geezeritis fogetus alotus syndrome. However give a problem to the folks here and neither the CIA or FBI or anyone else of those persuasions can compare to the combined ability to get to the bottom of something and ferret out the facts as a bunch of folks on Trainboard. And we don't have to resort to water boarding although my toss it in the ultrasound bath is maybe close.
     
  16. Seated Viper

    Seated Viper TrainBoard Member

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    Quite so, John!

    Regards,

    Pete
     
  17. Doug Gosha

    Doug Gosha TrainBoard Member

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    Just want to mention it's very unlikely for magnets in model locos to lose their magnetism merely from age. As others have said, there ARE ways to make them weak but these things would destroy the rest of the loco first.

    Heck, some of my Treble-O-Lectric locos' motors are over 50 years old and still run the same as new. Now, I know on my site, I mention how I ruined the magnetic field in my original ones by disassembling the magnet/pole pieces:oops: but I have others that haven't been touched.

    Doug
     
  18. LOU D

    LOU D TrainBoard Member

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    Well,actually,magnets do lose power with age.As an example,on many older motorcycles I work on,they have rare earth magnets that are used on the alternators.It's very common for pre 1980 magnets to lose enough power that they stop charging.I have doxens of older locos that have lost some magnetic power,but in most cases,it doesn't matter,they still have more than enough power due to gearing..If anything,losing magnetic force on the motor magnets LOWERS the starting speed...In electric motors with magnets,the commutator coils must generate enough force to break the field that's holding it stationary.The weaker the field,the slower the starting speed without a load on it..I actually move the magnets on old Trix locos to make them run/start slower..
     
  19. Doug Gosha

    Doug Gosha TrainBoard Member

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    OK, I guess I should have stated that, in any practical sense, model railroad motor magnets will not lose enough magnetism to really affect performance. As I said, my over 50 year old locos still perform pretty much as new. Some magnet types are more susceptible to loss than others.

    Also, if magnetism is lost to any substantial degree, the motor will draw considerably more currect which can lead to overheating.

    Doug
     
  20. BoxcabE50

    BoxcabE50 HOn30 & N Scales Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    OK. Groan, argh, etc! :)
     

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