Protection at shows?

Polski Oct 1, 2014

  1. casmmr

    casmmr TrainBoard Member

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    My club uses rope and stantions around the n-trak layout. 2 ropes one at the tope of the stantion and the other mid way. This seems to help. A top rope only invites the kids to go under quickly. For the t-trak, we use 2 tables back to back and place the modules along the rear of the table. On a 30" table, 18" is between the front of the table and the modules, usually enough for the kids not to be able to touch. WHATEVER YOU DO, DO NOT ALLOW A PARENT TO USE A CHAIR FOR THERE LITTLE ONE TO STAND ON. ONE SLIP AND YOU WILL BE SUED BY THE PARENT. I take the chair away and tell the parent that they get it back if they sign a complete release for any injuries that the child might receive if he/she falls off the chair. I have had no one sign one yet.
     
  2. Inkaneer

    Inkaneer TrainBoard Member

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    Totally unnecessary. First of all the club does not provide the chair. The chairs are the property of the hall or venue where the event takes place. Second the club does not encourage the parent to use the chair. No signs saying "use the chair" or any other form of encouragement. The parent is thus forced with a decision. Either hold the child so the child can see or stand the child on the chair. Either way both the child's hands as well as the parents are away from the layout. Very few parents will allow a small child to stand on a chair without holding on to the child. In this scenario there is no creation of a duty by the club or the train show or the hall/venue to the parent and/or the child. Thus no duty owed = no liability.

    That being said, I have seen some clubs provide small three step work platforms for children. This is a definite no-no and should be completely avoided.

    P.S. Having the parent sign a parent/guardian release before any incident occurs gives a false sense of legal security. Courts are loathed to deny a child an award because a parent foolishly signed away such rights beforehand. Also in this day and age you better have both parents sign the release and provide proof that they are legally married. In the case of divorced or separated parents one parent's signature does not obligate the other parent to the terms of the release and that guy the woman is with may not be her husband and the child's father so his signature is worthless.
     
  3. mcjaco

    mcjaco TrainBoard Member

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    At Modutrak, this rings very true. We have more issues with adults than kids. Our modules are already tall, so kids have to get picked up or, bring a stool to see. We do not use barriers, as we want people to see the detail.

    I had one adult at our last show, completely deforest my module because he was filming, and not paying attention to where his arms were. Took every last tree down to the stump, as he panned through to film a train passing through.
     
  4. Doug A.

    Doug A. TrainBoard Supporter

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    I am interested in this topic. When I get my layout to some semblance of finished, I hope to take it to a show or two. It it "transportable" but not a module per se, and doesn't have legs so the plan would be to sit it on a table, far enough back that it cannot be easily reached. I also plan to put strategic lexan in areas where it it closer to the edge. I'm not that concerned whether or not they can get good pics, and if it's not busy I would be ok with removing it for photos real quick.
     
  5. BoxcabE50

    BoxcabE50 HOn30 & N Scales Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    In age, perhaps it was an "adult". Otherwise, something was amiss. :( Was there enough intellect present, to at least offer an apology? Even with my El Super Cheapo video camera, I've no need to get so close as to be able to cause any damage.
     
  6. retsignalmtr

    retsignalmtr TrainBoard Member

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    People who are going to sue in court will sue everybody involved with anything that happens to them or their child, including the show promotor, the club and even individual members. They may not win but you will have to lay out some bucks or a Lawyer and other incidentals.
    My club was at a show and when the show was over a vendor fell outside in the parking lot while loading his car. He sued the promotor and the school. I don't know if he won anything but the promotor stopped all his shows and the school refused to allow any more shows there.
     
  7. JMaurer1

    JMaurer1 TrainBoard Member

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    We WISH we could come up with a way that worked. We have ropes that go around our NTrak layout, but people either just go under the rope or push up against the rope until they are next to the layout. Plastic barriers mounted on the front of the modules are just WAY too expensive although we have thought about putting in a riser (for the kiddies) and just having a plastic barrier at that location preventing them from being able to touch the trains. One thing that we have done in the past that kind of works is we have a train that some of the (11+) kids can run. We have a wireless throttle (and a limited speed locomotive) that we will let the kids operate. We tell them that while waiting they need to keep the other people back from the layout (since they are following their train between the layout and the rope) so the person running the train can get around (and then pass off to the next kid). This works somewhat, but not always. Parents are especially bad at pushing the boundaries. Maybe an air-soft rifle?
     
  8. r_i_straw

    r_i_straw Mostly N Scale Staff Member

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    A quote from one overbearing "progressive" mother after being told to restrain her kid.
     
  9. BoxcabE50

    BoxcabE50 HOn30 & N Scales Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    Today's all too common dumb**s. I wonder if she allows the kid to stick their hands into a meat grinder, or a barbeque for experience? If it ever happens again, tell him or her you'll be happy to hold onto their cash, checkbook and credit cards while junior plays.

    I believe a lot of people are foolish enough to equate the little 99 cent bags of variety store toys with what they see on display layouts. They have no clue the actual cost or value of that work in view.
     
  10. Inkaneer

    Inkaneer TrainBoard Member

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    Sure they can sue. Any idiot can sue but can they win? They better because early on you advise the lawyer that in the event he does not win the case for his clients you intend to pursue a lawsuit against both the lawyer and his clients to recover your expenses as well as compensation for your time. The lawyer is legally obligated to advise his clients of this and to protect his own interests advise them of his assessment of the liability situation. If he thinks they cannot win he should advise them that they should not proceed. If he does not do this then the lawyer could be liable for the expense as well as his clients.

    Now if one does not want to do this then take the simple way out and contact your homeowners insurance carrier. You have personal liability protection under that policy which would cover you.

    As for the promoter and the school both should have their own liability insurance coverage. In this day and age it is impossible for a promoter to put on an event without liability coverage covering not only himself but the venue as well. It is a cost of doing business.
     
  11. LOU D

    LOU D TrainBoard Member

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    Smear barbecue sauce or STP all over the rope..;)


    I can't stand stupid people with their kids,that's why I'm not a Scoutmaster anymore.I was with a Cub Scout Troop when my kids were younger.There were these two HORRIBLE kids,the mother was one of the leaders.I had the older kids,her kids were bothering my kids,kicking them,hitting them,then one of them picked up a broom,and was gonna whack one of my kids over the head with it.When I grabbed the broom out of his hand as he ran at my kid,he fell..The mother actually brought me up on child abuse charges!! Luckily,went NOWHERE.[she and her little darlings were finally asked to leave..] We has a big council meeting one time,Council President was talking in front of our group,probably 100 adults and kids there.The kids were sitting on the floor,her kids got up,and were a actually CLIMBING the Council President as he was speaking,[75 year old guy!!!]parents did NOTHING..Man,people like this need to be stopped..
     
  12. emaley

    emaley TrainBoard Supporter

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    People will find a way to circumvent any precaution you take. Only thing to do is keep a sharp eye. I attended an Airshow in 1989. The Airforce has just started showing the F-117 to the public. They had one on display that was roped off and had signs that CLEARLY said to keep back. They also had armed personell guading the plane and one man still went under the ropes, only to be taken to the ground with several M16's in his face. You can't fix stupid.

    I also like the bearspray idea. That stuff will stop a 6 year old in his tracks. And maybe a little concertina wire for good measure.

    Trey
     
  13. BoxcabE50

    BoxcabE50 HOn30 & N Scales Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    How right you are!
     
  14. Polski

    Polski TrainBoard Supporter

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    Thanks everyone. I think I'll go with Plexiglass. It will save me from smacking ADULTS!!!

    Polski
     
  15. gatrhumpy

    gatrhumpy TrainBoard Member

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    Suggestion? A shotgun.
     
  16. umtrr-author

    umtrr-author TrainBoard Member

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    When I displayed my "Starter Layout" I made sure I didn't run anything I couldn't do without.

    I purchased a later production Bachmann steam loco (hard plastic case, not the cardboard box) and ran off many scale miles with it. The alternate power was an entry level diesel, I don't recall which one.
     
  17. Grey One

    Grey One TrainBoard Supporter

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    I've worked retail for at least 20 years of my life including the last 6+ at a large pharmacy chain, (think 3 big red letters and waaaaay to many couplons).
    The stories I could tell you.
    BTW: Some of the stories are wonderful and positive. Some? not so much.
    This thread has inspired me to start a thread for, "Child Proofing at Home".
     
  18. mcjaco

    mcjaco TrainBoard Member

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    I wish it was "amiss." Perfectly normal adult. Just unaware of the surroundings and where his hands and camera were. It's pretty typical of many show participants.
     
  19. Pete Nolan

    Pete Nolan TrainBoard Supporter

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    Some of the tongue-in-cheek (I hope) remedies here will land you in jail on some serious charges. I just try to stay mellow, but forceful in voice only. Having a voice that will stop a dump truck (or so I'm told) is very effective.
     
  20. FloridaBoy

    FloridaBoy TrainBoard Member

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    I had a couple of small layouts I designated for shows, a Z and an N. I built them quite sturdily and protected them as much as possible, but I don't blame the kids, I blame the @#$#$@ parents who thinks their children can do no wrong.

    In addition to the intrusions, I had my fill of women calling my small trains "cute", nitpickers, taletellers, critics, and otherwise boring people. I then decided to be among the mass of bores who go to shows and keep my mouth shut and admire those who have the thick skin to take all of the smudge.

    Ken "FloridaBoy" Willaman
     

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