I have brought a Atlas GP7 that says it is both DC and DCC. For the foreseeable future (next year +/-) my layout is going to be DC until I complete enough of the layout and have enough money to buy DCC system. The good news is I have not brought a power pack yet. From what I have read I want to avoid a "pulse" power pack. So how do I know what power packs are "straight" power? My layout is 7' x 32" double loop with several spurs. One locomotive is fine until I get all of the bugs worked out of the layout and I am happy with the final design. Recommendations for a power pack is greatly appreciated.
I have an old MRC DC transformer. It is a 5 amp 2 cab unit which I purchased on ebay. It has a setting for both "pulse" and "full" power. I can crawl much easier with the loco's with the pulse setting. I suppose it depends on your locomotives and the brand of transformer as to what kind of luck you will have with this. My locos are Athearn, Life Like, and Bachman. This is an old transformer and who knows how many hours it has on it, yet it works fine. The only issue is there is a hum noise that comes out of the transformer.
My favourite is the MRC 2400. It has an ON-OFF pulse switch. The Kato pack is very good, but in my experience, it is not quite as good as the MRC. In addition, most of the trainset power packs are straight DC/no pulse (or as "straight" as rectified DC can get). Still, I would move on from them to one of the better power packs. Most of the "straight" DC power packs sold these days have pulse. Even the lower-end MRC packs (1300 series) have a discrete pulse. I am not sure what the better B-mann packs have, as I have only ever seen one in operation, that a hobby store had on its test track. As the only thing that you will learn on a test track is "Does it run?", that experience can not give me enough information to comment on it. Pulse vs. No Pulse used to be one of the controversial topics in model railroading; not quite a s controversial as the Great Coupler Debate, mind you, but certainly on the level of plastic Vs. metal wheels. With the advent of DCC, the pulse/no pulse debate has faded almost into obscurity. I prefer no pulse, but am not averse to using it, as most of the motors in use these days will stand up to the pulse. Certainly, you have no worries with the Atlas GP-7, or any Atlas offered in the past twenty-five, or so, years. Pulse may have caused problems in older Roco, Bachmann, Rivarossi, Mehano or Rowa power, but it should not be much of a problem, to-day. Pulse will cause a motor to run hotter at lower speeds, but if you are running mostly at track speed, the pulses are minimal. Most pulse-equipped packs are designed to lower the pulses as the speed increases. The only power that I noticed that ran particullarly hot even at track speed on pulsed power packs were the old Life-Like plastic frames. Still, I have yet to fry one of the LL motors on pulse. I have fried more than one older B-mann, Mehano or RR on pulse, but never anything from Kato, Atlas, IM or MT. The newer B-manns will stand up to pulse, as well. Some of the newer B-manns have factory decoders. It has been argued that the Bachpersonn decoder equipped locomotives do not like pulse. Indeed, I have seen a few of them do funny things on an MRC 2500 (which has a strong pulse), such as abruptly change direction when I did not touch the directional switch, or run contrary to the setting of the directional switch. When I went to a 2800 (dual control with discreet pulse) or 1300 series, there was never a problem or funny behaviour. Still, the Atlas should not be a problem.
uh hum. Here we go, I just know this is going to bring down the wrath of the NMRA Ninja's. I experienced the first run HO gauge Pulse transformers, owned one (wouldn't do that again) and they are nothing like today's transformers with the transistorized throttles known as Momentum. I think we are confusing Pulse with Momentum and a discussion on Momentum would be a good thing to have right about now. The original Pulse was not something you want on any layout. The new Momentum with it's transistorized throttle is. The electronics between the two are worlds apart. As is the difference between Analog DC and DCC. Brokemoto is right in that MRC did produce a Tech ll with pulse. See: http://www.ebay.com/itm/MRC-TECH-II-RAILMASTER-2400-Model-Train-Control-Transformer-Scale-HO-NOS-Z-New-/311348860179?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item487dd69513 Sorry, but I wouldn't recommend buying this power pack. It is a modified pulse and by far superior to anything I owned. Still, you won't find me buying it. Then an outfit in Europe, I think Germany, came up with a Pulse Transformer and I have no idea what they are talking about but may I suggest it's only muddying up the waters. The Kato power packs are good but they don't have Brake, Momentum and other features that are available from MRC. I lean heavily toward purchasing the new transistorized throttles produced by MRC. I'm not sure what I read and it's implications in Brokemoto's post, last paragraph. Did I read where you are using an Analog DC, pulse power to operate a DCC, decoder equipped diesel? If so why? You can expect it to behave poorly. It might just sit there and hummm. I can hear it coming, "Because it doesn't know the words". A quick visit to MRC's website reveals the following: Here is a sampling: http://modelrectifier.com/train-controls/dc-power-railpower.asp http://modelrectifier.com/train-controls/dc-power-tech4.asp There's no mention of pulse but mention of momentum. The first run Pulse transformers was unpredictable and it added in AC power to activate the pulse. The AC power or Pulse switch, if left on for any length of time would overheat the electric motor. Translation, it could burn up, arc weld the brushes to the armature and you would need to replace the electric motor. Not good. Not safe. Analog DC: One of the benefits of pure DC power packs is the electric motors tend to run a little cooler. Translated a longer life time could be expected. The purest form of DC was the walk around transistorized unit MRC built. Sorry, name escapes me but I'm working on it. Here we go: MRC Controlmaster 20. It was one of the first to tout a purified DC to the rails. Your MRC units of today are non-pulse, using transistorized throttles with purified DC. Feel free to purchase any of these new units. It troubles me in today's world, we still confuse one thing for another. Gosh, with all the various applications available on the market today. What? Can we expect to sort it out...all the time. I just had to throw a wet blanket in here.:startled:
To be fair here, pulse power was the answer in days long ago when 3 pole motors were the norm, to prevent a motor from cogging. Locomotives were started on pulse power then switched over to non pulse. Some power packs had a diminishing pulse as more power was applied. This rarely, if ever, happens with newer equippment with 5 pole motors and/or skewed armatures. Better motors and better designs have just about eliminated the need for adding pulse power.
Rick, In my last paragraph, I was describing what occurred when I put the MRC 2500, with its strong pulse, to the B-mann power equipped with the factory decoder. This B-mann decoder is alleged to be a "smart" decoder in that it recognises if it is being fed DCC signals or the good ol' electricidad and responds accordingly. The only power that I own that has decoders are these B-mann locomotives equipped from the factory with these alleged "smart" decoders. I am not a DCC user, so I would not install a decoder in a locomotive, nor would I attempt to operate a decoder equipped locomotive on my pike, unless it had one of these so-called "smart" decoders. The only time that any of this B-mann power acted up was on the 2500. If I applied power from a 2800 or 1300 series, or, turned on the pulse switch on the 2400, the B-manns operated acceptably.
Brokemoto, Now I have a better understanding. Yep, I've seen locomotives as you said "Smart Decoder," with the DCC to Analog DC options run just fine on Analog DC power. They shouldn't have any problems running as powered by your MRC 2500. DCC with AC power on the tracks still feels strange to me. I've had no problems running my DCC locomotives and diesels as long as I can keep them on the tracks and not on the floor. A little preventive medicine is going on with my layout. A little edging here and a whole lot of fill in the blank spots in the open grid construction. Great posting and a good question.
When I got my 1st dual mode decoder engine Walthers Y3 with sound the pulse seemed to confuse the decoder and caused it to glitch . When I use a nonpulse Transformer the problem went away. The Y3 has built in momentum and braking, however I have set these to the minimum. I use a MRC train master 120?( tether with walk around control) and a tech 2 2400?( Do not remember) with the pulse,momentum and braking turned off. My Bachmann 2-10-2 dual mode also works fine on these. In my opinion pulse can adversely affect dual mode decoders.
In almost 50 years, I have never damaged an N scale motor with pulse power. Just use a little care, is all. Don't put fifty cars behind the loco and rev it up when it's spinning, unable to move those cars. That's where you ask for trouble, even with smooth DC. Doug
Doug, You wouldn't be the first one to confuse Pulse with Momentum. Two different animals but quite often are referred to as a synonym. Here is the one power pack I think you are referring to. http://www.wig-wag-trains.com/MRC/DC/Control-Master-20_Page.html Am I right?hboy:
Thanks for the comments so far. A little more information. I am modeling a Santa Fe branch line inspired by the Howard branch described in The Santa Fe Historical Society website. I will be running the branch line with short consists and with five spurs a lot of switching so slow speed pickup is important. After I convert to DCC I am going to add more locomotives and longer consists. Money is a factor. Since I plan on using DCC I don't want to spend any more than I have to for a DC power pack that will not be used anymore. I am not opposed to buying a used power pack. The important thing is I don't make a mistake and buy a power pack that gives me poor performance.
If you do not want to go DCC right now, just get a used MRC Tech II pack like a Loco-Motion 1500 or 2500. They have pulse at low speeds but the pulse waveform is removed from the output as the throttle is increased. I have had one since the eighties and it works very well. There are lower priced models that don't have any pulse but I feel pulse is needed at start-up and very slow speeds for real reliable slow-speed performance. Doug
Messing with old school technology isn't something I'd recommend. What Raton Man, said, "Make the sacrifice now, and go DCC!" If I was starting all over again, I'd start with DCC and never look back. That way no one gets insulted. Although the later Tech ll, Pulse Power has been modified from the original I still consider it dangerous to play with. Give it up and let it go. My two cents.
It all depends on how fast you want to get trains running. DC - Buy a pack and connect two wires. Turn it on and watch the trains run. DCC - Buy all the equipment. Either buy decoder equipped locos or install them in existing locos. Set up a programmomg track. Read all the instructions several times to learn how to use a DCC system. Program your locos. Debug when they don't work as expected. Reprogram your locos. Put the locos on the regular track. Connect two wires from the DCC controller and turn it on. Turn the throttle up and wonder why the loco doesn't run. Discover you selected the wrong loco. Reselect and try again and you finally get to see your loco run albeit noting that it needs further refinements to settings. I'll stick to DC and I'm a computer guy. Don't want them when I run trains. Just like I don't want them when I listen to music. Doug
DCC is not the panacea for all the ills of model railroading. There will always be a spot for analog DC. Most layouts are not the club size mega layouts one typically sees on layout tours. Rather, most are small and tucked away in a spare room or a corner of the basement or garage. Those small layouts can operate quite well without DCC. To be sure DCC has its advantages but it also has a plethora of disadvantages. Two of which are cost and for those among us who are electronically challenged, ease of operation. I got into DCC two years ago and I am still on the learning curve. I have yet to realize any advantage that I could use to justify the expense.
