Need information on model train production dates to solve estate issue

Hi, all---
I just joined the site and am hoping you folks out there can help me solve a big problem. My aunt died 2 months ago in southern Illinois, five years after her husband died. he was a long-time collector of model trains, etc, some HO, N, and Z scale later on. He has a huge room full of these cars, most of them new in boxes. It's my job to figure out which cars items were made before 1992, because those cars must stay in the house, as they belong to my uncle's son from an early marriage. I inherit the cars made after 1992, when they were married.

I have tried to get someone from the local club to come over and help separate the cars, without success (I would pay for the help, of course). Surely there is a key to these cars, a way to interpret the inventory or item number so that I can know when the cars were made simply by looking at the boxes? I am goign next month to take on this task in Illinois and can use all the advice you can give me on how to separate the items by date of manufacture. These are hobby trains and he had no brass trains, and had already given away his Lionel set. Please advise. Lola

 

This is a difficult task Lola because model trains in all scales are produced for years without any appreciable difference in them. The success of your quest will depend on the brands, how much equipment is on hand and how much spare time you have. Within N Scale, if you have any Micro-Trains cars, they can be researched if given time.

 

Lola, I cannot help you, but would like to welcome you to Trainboard, and some good advice has already come forth.

 

Hi Lola,

As far as the Z scale items... that is the easiest to start with where value is concerned. first you need to identify the manufacturer. Marklin? AZL?

Then move up to N etc... pics, as stated above would help immensely

 

Thanks to all who have replied so far. This estate is really a mess, with the trains being the central difficulty. My uncle's son from an earlier marriage, who owns the trains acquired before 1992, technically, in incarcerated for multiple felonies. No one knows him, now that my aunt is deceased, and she avoided him for years. My goal is to identify the trains that technically belonged to my deceased aunt (acquired by my uncle after 1992, and remove them from the house during the next two months, as my aunt was living in the house with a life estate, and the house itself is now the property of the incarcerated son.. My feeling is that the state if not the federal government will then confiscate the entire house with everything in it that the son owns, for debt or some other reason.

Would still like to know if anyone out there has any direct knowledge on how these cars are coded or inventoried by number. Most of the packages are unopened, so what the trains look like isn't going to help much—but how the boxes are marked should have significance. If any one has any direct knowledge of how hobby trains (like those sold at Hobby lobby) were marked by diff manufacturers, I'd love to know, before I start calling. My thought is that if canned green beans, paint, and hair coloring are coded with production dates, that trains should be as well. As collectors, how do you know what you're buying from a fellow collector when you look at an unopened box? I app;reciate the advice and if you think of anything else, please let me know.

My uncle purchased lots of hobby trains, and the manufacurers some of you have mentioned certainly appear in the collection. I'm planning to go out there in july and have a plan ready once I get there. I am pretty sure all the Z trains were acquired after 1992, so i think I'm ok in just taking them and obviously, as I am not planning to collect, selling them eventually. I'm beginning to think that without sales receipts, I will have to use some reasonable date coded onto the package, as representing the 1992 cut-off. certauinly I don't want to drga home someone else's property, even if he is a felon.

 

Additionally

Micro-Trains is one of the manufacturers, as well as as Marklin. He had invested in the state cars and had all of them, and I know he acquired them after 1992. I suppose I will have to photograph numbers and makers on all the boxes when I'm out there. But some boxes have 2 long numbers on them! let me know if anything else occurs to you.

 

Lola, I don't know what year UPC encoding became a universal standard, but that might help identify general product availability dates. I suggest contacting all manufacturers directly whose products have UPC on their boxes. I'd like to believe the various customer service representatives would be sympathetic to your problem once you explained it as you have to us. I wish you well, obviously you have a good heart.

P.S. I've found that most, if not all companies that specialize in model railroading recognize that ours is a personal hobby, thus treat each of their customers as personal friends. OK, that may be a stretch, but they definitely do not operate with the Big-Box Mega-Mart mentality.

 

Some tips....
-anything with a URL plastered on it is gonna be post 1994. (likely post 1998 or later)
-anything with a "Intended for children 11+ or 13+" (Or something to that affect) will almost assuredly be post 1992. The CSPA was enacted in 1994, but the one that prompted the proliferation of the stickers was sometime later...suffice to say it would be unusual to see that prior to 1994.
-anything with BNSF or "Burlington Northern Santa Fe" on it is post 1994.

I think it would be "reasonable to assume" these things to be good indicators of a products age. I am no attorney though. I would generally look at packaging too. 1992 is 23 years ago, so yellowing and wear is certainly possible. But SIGNIFICANT wear or yellowing to the point of brittle would probably indicate an older piece. Again, what is reasonable, without having to spend significant dollars on experts or crazy amounts of time trying to carbon date a bunch of model trains.

In my opinion, the prudent thing to do would be to focus on high value items like locomotives or any locos, cars, or structures made of brass and in original boxes. Err way on the side of caution for everything else (read: just leave it, not worth messing with even if it falls a year or two past your cutoff) and the list of locos should be a much shorter research project.

 

If the financial result matters, your first step might be to tally up how many cars you find for each brand and scale and how many locomotives you find for each brand and scale. Certain brands are recognized amongst model rails as near worthless, while others are of appreciable value. If you find that the bulk of the collection is of lesser brands, you'll be wasting time trying to parse it out.

Alternately, if there's a local model railroad club, you might contact them. Most anyone who's been in the hobby for a while could tell you if the collection is worth messing with.

I mention this because my Mom took me to meet an aging widow "who's husband had a lot of nice railroad books". When I looked through the "collection" I found nothing but coffee table books he'd bought on sale from the bargain table at the shopping mall. I very much appreciated her generosity, but none were of interest or any value.

Good luck with your work. I think you will find that there's no way to clearly categorize by year what you have before you.

 

Lola,

First, sorry for your loss. Cleaning up an estate is never easy, so you have my sympathies there too.

The length of the numbers might be a useful key for MTL products. If the label on the box it includes a product number of the form XXX-XX-XXX, if is safe to assume they are manufactured in 2005 or beyond, as that is when MTL moved to their new code system.

Also, for anything N or Z Scale items that mentioned Kadee, you can be fairly sure it is pre 1990 when MTL was spun off.

But in general... using a date of manufacture?

Such makes this a MUCH more difficult assignment than other alternatives for the asset division. And unless a will specifies date of manufacture, what should govern is rather the year of acquisition by the decedent (manufacture date in many cases will be FAR too early - especially for a collector - but would be the most conservative method).

While not an estate attorney nor knowledgeable about IL regs, I believe the first step is to ensure that you (or ideally another who is not a beneficiary) are established as the trustee / administrator of the estate. With such in place, the trustee would have the ability and protection to secure an agreement for a less problematic method of division and/or to dispose of the assets in a reasonable manner. Such might include hiring a third party to inventory and liquidate the entire collection. There are many options for this method there as well.

Baring a more logical method for division, determining the date of manufacture will be a considerable task outside of some like MTL, where given dbs, it should be relatively easy.

And as another also mentioned, for locos (perhaps the bulk of the value?) for those in N scale, see http://www.spookshow.net/trainstuff.html (specifically http://www.spookshow.net/locos.html ) Mark has done an amazing job collecting info into a searchable database that includes "model year" dates and ways to tell between issues. BUT DO TAKE CARE as the table form only list the first year such was released, with subsequent re-releases detailed ONLY in the description.

All the best.

 

Thank you all, and here's my update

In the time available to clear out my aunt's house, I was never able to procure a file of makers/numbers w/corresponding date of production, etc., before I went to illinois. I have read your advice with care (thanks!). Luckily, a neighbor who knew my aunt and was fond of her came in and helped make the decision on what to carry back home, for the most part dating the cars based on when we thought he acquired them. A couple of them I drove back in my own car, but when the movers arrive here I will be dealing with 21 boxes full of collector trains. I know I should probably be dealing with someone who wants the who package, but am concerned about scammers. The neighbor has given me an estimate of what my uncle paid for what's in the 21 boxes, so at least i can look for estimate what everything should bring, even discounted healthily.

Maybe you could give me an idea of what to ask for a few trains that the neighbor said were likely to hold the most value, and which I drove home separately. Here is the list. Sometimes I can't even tell who the manufacturer was based on the labeling. These are N's, I believe, but am having a hard time telling the size:
a) A 5 car set labeled Baltimore and Ohio Cincinnatian (Key Imports, made in Korea) in original red box, cars read Eden Park, Oakley, College Hill, Price Hill, and Fountain Sq.
b) brass car in separate blue box, marked Pecos River Brass, Pullmna, Heavyweight Sleeper, 8 sec., 1 drawing rm., 2 compartments, #1840G KMT Japan
c) " " " " " , this one marked Pecos River brass, Pullman heavyweight sleeper, 14 section tourist car, #1846G KMT
d) Burlington Pioneer Zephyr (Fine N-scale products and phototrains) Engine and 3 cars attached [4 car set] , never opened, tiny doodads in little bags inside the package (little wires and plastic things)

If you have a sense of what these are worth, I'd appreciate it, as they are among the best things he collected after 1990. Then, any more advice about a delaer or purchaser in the state of Virginia would be welcome. I know trains are like antiques and other collectibles---they're worth what someone will pay for at a given time. All the best to all of you, and let me know what you think! Lola