I am using AnyRail to plan a space-limited layout that is a stepping-stone from a roundy-round philosophy to a more realistic operting philosophy, as well as a practice construction project for the real layout that can be larger and permanent, but not yet. I have first planned this stepping-stone in Kato Unitrack, then in Atlas Code 55, and am now expanding my thinking to include Peco Code 55 for switches that Atlas does not produce. There is a spot on the layout that just cries-out for a single-slip switch. It is where a siding (which also provides a turning loop) needs to access both tracks of a double-track mainline. For right-hand operation, the crossed mainline can just be straight-through, and both mainlines see facing points. My concern and question to those here with experience that I do not have is this: Am I more likely to see derailments on my mainline trains due to using a slip switch than if I used a longer series of single turnouts? And, since sometimes trains need to back through the reversing loop, is the slip feature more likely a problem in reverse than a regular crossover plus diverging track turnout? I do NOT want to make a frustrating operational problem on the layout that is intended to get the wife into "operations." And, since this probably is not a permanent layout, I am thinking that a double-slip switch might be a better purchase for fleibility in later uses UNLESS it woud create a problem the the single-slip does not. Advice? And, essentially the same questions for Peco 3-way switches in Code 55. The throat of my yard could use 2 of them in series to good advantage. Unless that is going to give me derailments. There will be plenty of backing through those, as well. Steve
Hi Steve, The only problems I have encountered with the Peco Code 55 Slips and 3 way occur when the back to back on the wheelset is wrong. This can happen when the back to back is too large or too small. See below... This goes against the NMRA standard back to back which is 7.65mm. The difference is mainly due to the British N Scale being to 1:148 when most other countries it is 1:160. Thanks
Scottishmodeller, Not sure what to think about your answer. If the Peco turnouts have trouble with things that are larger AND smaller than the British standard, and the NMRA standard is larger by 0.25 mm, does that mean that US models typically will NOT work? Do you have microtrains wheelsets that work. Do you have BLMA and Fox Valley wheelsets that work? Do you have those wheelsets and they will NOT work? If the Peco turnouts derail my engines, I can't use them. Steve
Steve, I am by no means an expert but I have many years of experience with N Trak modules and now a very excellent permanent layout in New Mexico. Good luck on getting the wife operating. Having read all you posted I have one suggestion and that is the KATO Unitrack will give you the most reliable and problem free operations. You stated this layout is a learning process so go with the most reliable and that is the KATO. If you are new to building you will not regret the Unitrack. KATO has a program that will tell you exactly which pieces you need to build the layout. I am not selling, for anybody, the KATO but just expressing the facts as I have experienced. Most important is , have fun. Carl PS: IMHO you will have problems with the PECO.
Hi Steve, I recently sold all my US N Gauge but can explain a bit more. Yes - I had the full range of manufacturers - M/T, BLMA, Fox Valley, Intermountain, Atlas etc.... The problem with Back to Backs is that they can cause problems in all scales if they are not set correctly - Even the 1:1 railway has problems of a similar nature. It seems that any maker of wheelsets can produce an odd batch that are not set to the correct back to back. It is quite common, within the various makers, for the back to back to vary - even on the same car! For consistant running through Peco Code 55 points I check the back to back with either a Back to Back gauge or a digital verneer caliper, then set it to match the UK N Gauge standard. In most cases this is an easy fix with a quick twist and either pull or squeeze, the only problems I had were on models that had plastic wheels and axles moulded as one part. In this case I replaced them with M/T wheelsets. Thanks
I use Peco double slip and 3-way switches without issue. I also use a variety of metal wheel sets; FVM, Atlas, Intermountain with a majority FVM. Very little trouble and none directly attributed to either Peco switches or metal wheel sets. I prefer the double slip over the single slip switches because I can get more routing with the same number of switch machines. I can't speak to the reliability for backing up through the switch.
Hi Carl, I already have some experience with Unitrack. I like the way it functions, except for the #4 turnouts. Those seem to need modifications to avoid point-picking in too many cases. The space for the learning layout is not large enough to use #6s. So, I am resigned to doing some futzing with track of some sort. If there is a way to SUCCESSFULLY futz with 3 Peco turnouts instead of 18 Unitrack #4s to get reliable opertation, then I may still be better-off with the Peco. Anyway, I CAN build it with only Atlas track, using #5s and some of their curved turnouts. But, I get into some unnecessaary chicanes, and the extra multiple turnout length shortens my sidings. Atlas track certainly looks better, so that is what I mainly want to use on my permanent layout, and am thinking about it for this stepping-stone layout to give me some experience with it. It certainly LOOKS better on paper, too, because it is not limited to 15° direction changes. The ability to vary the angles more freely is an important factor in letting me use Atlas #5s in place of Kato #4s and still fit everything in. The only down-side is that I can't just snap it apart like Unitrack and reassemble it later if I have to move the layout out of a room. So, I am really looking for info on the unique Peco turnouts to decide if I want to try them. Steve
Steve, good deal and I wish you well. I do know about the #4 KATO turnouts and totally agree, that's why we used only #6 in every location on our club layout (60 turnouts). One thing scares me about your plans and I am 75 years old and have played with trains for 60 years, on my own, so I speak from the voice of experience or better said the hard knocks of railroading. The following statement leads me to believe that you are going to "futz" with the problems all the time and your enthusiasm for modelling will slip away. I hope not for your enjoyment. As I said earlier, have fun. Carl
Thanks, Scottishmodeller, Can you tell me what the real difference is between the Peco turnouts and the Atlas and Kato turnouts with respect to the back-to-back spacing? Are the guard rails different? And, if so, could those be modified instead of wheelsets? Steve
I would think that "back-to-back" is what we in the States call "wheel gauge". And any turnout could potentially cause problems if the wheels are spaced too wide or narrow. I can't comment on the operational reliability of those pieces of Peco track. I would think if they make it, it would be okay. I would think a lot would depend on the routes and how sharp of angles presented by each route. But I cannot stress enough taking time and laying any track carefully. No matter what brand of track your using. I personally use Atlas code 55 and use low profile flange wheel sets on all my freight cars. I prefer the look of it. I have no issues other than operator error when "things haven't gone well." But I try to keep things simple. I believe the more complicated things get, the more the chance for things to go wrong.
Folks, keep this in mind always. Peco makes two lines of track and switches, Code 80 and Code 55. Code 80 are made to early European standards while Code 55 are made to NMRA standards. There is no problems with flex track but there is with switches. C80 switches are an older design and have a wider flange way at the frog to accommodate European equipment. This wider flange way is what causes derailments. The Code 55 switches do not have this problem as they are made to more exact standards. As far as wheel gauge goes, any one piece plastic (Delrin) wheel set should be in gauge providing they were manufactured correctly. However, metal wheels, by necessity, have to be two or more pieces to prevent a dead short through the wheelsets. These wheels can be out of gauge from the factory and/or can get out of gauge by running.
Hi Steve. The flangeways on Peco turnouts (the space between the "guardrail" - which on Peco is plastic - and the stock rail) tend to be a bit wide in comparison to NMRA standards. I used Peco track exclusively for nearly 15 years before switching to Atlas Code 55 for my current layout, and I found that even on the Peco Code 55 track, the flangeways tended to be too wide. This allows NMRA-gauged wheelsets to slide too far over when negotiating the frog and sometimes derail. The easy fix for this is to get some .010 (thick) by .060 (wide) styrene strip and shim the "guardrail" to tighten the flangeway gauge. It's really easy to do - just cut a piece of the styrene strip to the length of the "guardrail" and cement it on with a drop or two of liquid styrene cement. Use a couple of toothpicks wedged between the stock rail and guardrail/shim to make sure that the shim conforms to the bend in the plastic guardrail. You might have to lightly sand the top of the shim to get it even with the guardrail top. Paint the shim brown, and problem solved in about 5 minutes. The Peco Code 55 track is in many ways superior to Atlas' offering. In particular, it is nearly indestructible. Peco uses a Code 80 rail that is embedded in the ties to reveal only a Code 55 profile. This construction is very robust, and most older engines with larger flanges and older "pizza-cutter" MT wheelsets will run on this track because there isn't an out-of-scale spike head on the inside of the rail to hold the rail to the ties. Even my old Arnold S-2's ran on this stuff. My N-Trak club has modules that are 30 years old with Peco switches that still work flawlessly. Honestly, there are lots of days I miss my Peco Code 55 despite the British tie spacing. The Atlas Code 55 track is just not as robust as Peco, and the Atlas #5 and #7 turnouts often have their own issues. Kato's Unitrack is something I recommend to every N-scale beginner for their first layout, but Kato's #4 turnouts also have their quirks. Nothing is perfect, except perhaps hand-made turnouts built precisely to NMRA standards (I've done those, too, and they beat any commercial product by a country mile). I wouldn't hesitate to get a Peco double- or single-slip switch, but I WOULD take an NMRA track gauge and check the flangeways to see if they need shimmed. Note that if you do this, you also will need to be very particular about the wheel gauge on your locomotives and rolling stock. MT plastic wheels are always precisely in gauge; FVM metal wheels and other metal wheelsets can occasionally vary from exact NMRA gauge for the reasons other posters have stated; it is worth checking them with your NMRA gauge before putting them on a layout and adjusting if necessary. As for engines, I have found that they are ALWAYS a bit tight in gauge. It doesn't matter who the manufacturer is, since all the stuff comes from the same factory in China anyway. I've never checked a diesel locomotive that had its wheels properly gauged; steam locos SOMETIMES have the main drivers in gauge, but usually the tender wheels and front/rear trailing truck wheels are narrow. You don't usually have to disassemble a diesel truck to fix the wheel gauge; for years I just slipped a small flat-bladed screwdriver between the wheel and the side of the truck to widen the gauge. This works about 95% of the time, although occasionally you'll find a very stubborn wheelset that has to be removed from the truck. If you get the gauge too wide, you can usually just press in on the side of the truck to narrow the gauge. Anyway, I would have no fear of using a Peco double- or single-slip. Peco's track is first-rate. John C.
Back-to-back is what the NMRA call Back-to-back (B), and the relevant NMRA dimension is 7.65 mm (7.70 to 7.55 is the acceptable range). They also have a Check Gauge dimension which is the measurement from the back of one wheel to the front of the flange of the other (8.15 mm), but they don't have a value defined as Wheel Gauge although, as you point out, this usually has the same interpretation as Back-to-back. As for the question, I would have no issues with using Peco Code 55 if you can live with the tie spacing (and with the caveats above), but the connection to other Code 55 rails is problematic due to its construction. Adrian
All the years that I've modeled (on and off for some 40+ anyway), I've never really looked into the standards. I probably should someday. Except for NTrak modules. I was forced to. Politely though. I usually tinker with things until they work. I've no idea if they meet the standards.
I have 100% Peco and don't have any problems, running and backing up 30-45 car trains. I adjust all my wheelsets a little on the narrow side. IMO, Peco is the best made track and switches on the market. I have been using it for over 25 years and have never had a defective switch!
I don't have a layout as of yet due to a move, but I've experimented with Unitrack and Peco interfacing, and it worked flawlessly. Peco's 55 mates right up to Kato's 80 because of Peco's design. In my new Anyrail plans I have not shied away from using them when Kato's rigid geometry didn't work for me. Hoping same as you that is not a mistake. Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
I have to agree with the robustness and futzing comments. After using Peco C55 turnouts for a decade or two I bought an Atlas fine scale curved turnout because Peco did not offer a suitable alternative. It was too delicate for the package it came in, basically, and I had to re-install a point rail. Then the first track cleaning I found myself repairing it again. I have since found a way to use a Peco straight in it's place. The Atlas are drop dead beautiful track models compared to the chunky-looking Peco but I hold reliability and robustness over looks. On a small layout you may put up with futzing, but large layouts are either rock solid, no-futz and fun, or they are frustrating and unused.
