Contemplating a Wye Track on my new N scale, Atlas Code 55, switching layout. I learned from a proto railroader that unloading a box car is nearly always done on the same side, and want to incorporate the box car turn into future ops. I have committed to a U shaped layout, 2 feet deep benchwork on all three sides, and the Y would most likely go in a corner. I have a few of the Atlas 2.5 and 3.5 wye turnouts, but have never found true radius and dimensions that correlate to each. Atlas lists the degrees so if you know the corresponding wye radii of the 5 and 7, it would help, and with a 1-2 box car length tail heading into a layout corner, or box car and loco, how much space would that take? Thanks in advance for a quick answer, TB usually helps a lot!
Depends on what is the minimum radius curves your cars & locos will go thru. In N scale try a temporary 6" R 1/4 circle. most 4 axle diesels & 40' cars can make that. 6 axles & longer cars can probably make 8" R easily.
Hi Jeff - I am no expert when it comes to Wye Tracks, so I might be leading you astray, but I drew up one version of a Wye for you using Atlas N-Scale Code 55. I positioned it with the tail track in a corner as you suggested. The tail track is long enough for two 40- or 50-foot boxcars. One problem that is immediately obvious is that the tail track is a long reach from the edge of the benchwork -- about 33". I would never be able to reach, re-rail, or uncouple a car that was that far away. I'd want to bring the whole wye much closer to the edge of the layout. So this is just a starting point, a rough idea. You can adjust the geometry to meet your needs. - Jeff
A wye takes at least as much depth of benchwork as a loop. It takes as much if you make one leg a half loop, so the tail tracks are parallel. More otherwise, or the tail track won't be long enough for a locomotive and two or three cars.
I had a cool wye on my now dismantled (due to relocating my life) HO 35' point to point layout. The wye was on a peninsula outside the engine house. The shortest leg of it ran right into the a wall of Apt. and was going to represent tracks going out to other RRs. But on this leg I placed a rustic passenger station. Other two had one leg about 3' long representing an interchange and went right to the very edge of the ply. I used this to 0-5-0 cars off and on, to/from 'my' railroad( I.E. staging).. 3rd leg went out to main line..I made trackage in wye using Atlas sectional 18"r curve tracks. It was tight but not too tight for locos in/out of engine house trackage and other 2 legs. So this tells me you might get away with like 9-10" Rad. curves in your wye..I'll assume you do know the polarity flipping needed to run a wye..If DCC there are auto reversers if you don't want to flip a toggle switch to do it (which I did and enjoyed the activity of this, along with ground throws on the 3 switches [TOs] ). I say all this so that you might get an idea of various ways to incorporate a wye on your RR. If that lower tail on your wye goes right to the corner, let it.. It represents your RR going off in the distance (though pointing right at you...Here, you can 0-5-0 (stage) cars on/off, too.
It is absolutely realistic to have a wye at a junction, where a branch line leads off of a main line. That's perfect. And if the polarity question is news to you, a wye can cause a short like a loop does. Insulate one leg from the others, and install a DPDT switch on the wires to this insulated section of track. Wire the switch so the same power goes through, but throwing the switch reverses the polarity. If your main line goes through, and the wye is in the middle of it, you can just insulate the switch away from the main and the tail track attached to it. When you run up one leg of the wye, throw that DPDT toggle to align the polarity to match. Then reverse the polarity before going through the other leg of the wye.
There's an aerial photo on this forum somewhere showing a wye version (in Italy?) that keeps things smaller by being a 3 or 4 point turn... Sent from my D5803 using Tapatalk
John Armstrong wrote about those overlapping wye tracks, but not sure I want that kind of one off track pattern. Thanks for all the replies, and especially the drawing from jdetray. I saw that on the plane, and got home and started laying it out full size in my corner, rather than on paper. I measured the 2.5 wye and it is about 17.5 or 18" effective radius. I think I can get by and use 15-16.25"" radius (15" is the inside curve of the Atlas C55 curved turnout, already planned for use, so why not?) or so and still make it fit nicely with the two box car tail, disappearing under a bridge or something. This is actually a switching layout, so the wye would simulate another area of the industrial park not modelled, not some main or branch, as its all a branch. BTW, I am familiar with wyes, and have DCC and the AR01 reverse unit. And, the other question - is it worth modeling a turn of the box car for loading? I didn't realize that was a thing until attending an op session with some real railroaders the other night. I have seen it in only one model railroad as standard ops. The other way to handle it would be to have two tracks (thinking a newsprint recycler as industry) and just place the cars on the track where the door faces the right way. If too many box cars come in the wrong direction, maybe an off spot and put it in later after the correct spot is empty. Which do you think would provide the best operation fun? As always, thanks in advance for replies.
"Best operation fun"" will be determined by the priorities for your op session: requiring all cars to be turned (if needed) would add a few extra minutes to the job...which is fun, if you want longer jobs; less fun, if one operator turning cars before spotting them occasionally (but relatively rarely) delays or interrupts another operator's fun; and is definitely NOT fun when more than one operator must twiddle their thumbs while a car gets turned. (Be careful what you wish for: sometime modeling all of the operational tasks "just like the prototype" may lead to unnecessary frustrations (=no fun)... just like the prototype). All things considered, I personally think it's a task worth adding. Some other comments, for what they're worth: If you find that having one operator turn cars is leading to chronic delays in other operators' jobs, there are several factors that should be considered before deciding you need to eliminate turning cars from the operator's tasks. 1. The turning operator's switching may be inefficient. A good op session host will reduce chance of future delays by coaching less experienced operators, or pairing them with more experienced/efficient operators. 2. The second operator may be arriving at the turning operator's block too soon, b/c they exceeded scale operation speeds, did not complete all assigned tasks in previous blocks, or entered the turning operator's block without authorization. This is sort of self correcting: the consequences of rushing means operators will be forced to stop and wait. Repeat offenders may benefit from pre-session pep talks and reminders, and (if you feel speeding is a problem with multiple operators in your op sessions), an op session host could set up mini-clinics about running at scale speeds, or could add landmarks (fence posts, telephone poles, sign posts, relay boxes, etc) at uniform distances along the mainline and encourage operators to maintain scale speeds by moving from one landmark to another in NO LESS THAN x number of seconds. 3. The various people responsible for scheduling what trains run where in an operating session, may be scheduling too little time for a competent operator to switch loads and empties plus also turn some cars before spotting them. To remedy this, perhaps the op session host needs to adjust the specific order or sequence the trains are run in, or work with the dispatcher to tweak time tables so that a competent operator has enough time to complete their assigned job. Or maybe it might be necessary for yardmasters to improve how they coordinate trains into and out of yards, or be more careful when directing trains around a yard (and close to nearby industrial switching). Establishing (and instructing operators about) train superiority may also be helpful.
David, Thanks for the tips. As mentioned, it will be a switching layout, so wouldn't block the main. If there are two operators, one would work the other side, basically the interchange yard, while the other took the industrial run, loosely drawn up based on Bill Denton's Kingsbury Branch. As Denver Road Doug pointed out to me off line, the Y itself is worth modeling for it's interesting look and to break up other straight track (actually, not much of that, thanks to the Kingsbury inspiration) and I can always ignore the turn operation, or stage the sessions so only a few need it, not all box cars. As of now, it is in the layout plan, since I also found all three wye turnouts needed to complete it and have no other use for them.....
I'm not real sure the informant's information is correct. I've never observed a switching crew turn a box car for the sake of loading. A wye was a costly feature to build into any short spsur line. Never mind the time it took out of a switch crews day. I don't think the issue of turning a box car is the railroads top priority. However turning a steam engine was. Resulting in, you could find wyes or a turntable at the end of many a spur line. For example a box car left San Jose with empty canning cans, after having been loaded from the right side. After arriving at it's destination in Hollister, CA., it was unloaded from the left side. They are loaded the same irregardless of access to the car. The same thing was true of a box car loaded in Watsonville, CA., on it's arrival in Oakland, CA., it was unloaded from the opposite side. Of course, trucks were edging in on the short hauls so it didn't much matter what end of the truck they loaded from. Now if you insist on operating that way...that's ok with me. So, some words of advice. Each end of the wye needs to be as long as the longest train you plan to turn on it. Regarding N Scale: You'll hear me say, "Wider curves are the best curves." You'll also hear me say, "Anything less then a 13" radius curve is asking for trouble. Wiring will be tricky but not as scary as it may seem at first. With N scale you can afford to take more room for various features of your layout and widen those curves out. There's more advice to be found: See signature below for a Model Railroad How To. I know shameless plug.
Rick, Asked the same question of a BNSF guy, who told he got his training to turn the box cars, but in the field, his superiors told him to just forget about it and let the consignee or next crew figure it out. He said he never heard back from any customers or supervisors, so he figured it wasn't a biggie, even if technically on the books as a rule or good practice. As I mentioned before, I will probably put it in for looks, and put the turn brake wheel to opening rule in the timetable, but would never consider calling anyone out who didn't do it. Its there if someone wants it. Of course, now you got me thinking I should combine the wye with one end of a yard, since that is the most likely place it would have been......I was putting it on the other side, as a connection to an un-modeled part of the industrial district, which would also be prototypical, and a few are used in my nearest industrial park, the old Great Southwest Railroad.
Rossford, I love the action I get with a wye in place as I do with a reverse loop or balloon loop. Have all of the above on my layout with plans for a turntable. Since I operate primarily with Analog DC., Cab A & Cab B., I've hard wired in the appropriate reversing toggles and I have to tell you it works great. Then I learned that with my DCC operations, those reversing toggles work great. I only have to throw the reversing toggle inside the reverse loop or reversing section of the wye. Nice! Real nice! More on this if you need it.
If I may elaborate. On a past trip to Santa Maria, Ca. To visit my sister and dad. We watched as the rails switched the Guadalupe Local. Going out of town south bound headed to Lompoc, Ca. On the return trip They switched a local industry, due to the direction of the switch. Easier to back into it then try to use a run around to spot the car. No concerns what so ever for which side it was unloaded from. True their have been customers who've made unreal demands only to learn the box cars got spotted the way they got spotted and when the crews got there and not a minute before. Now, what switching move was I going to make on my layout?.
Rick, Have been lucky enough to ride with a switch crew in my nearby Great Southwest Industrial area. Yes, they pull and leave any car that is facing point to pick up on the return run (limits train length) and also pull trailing point switches on the return run to save time. I agree we modellers ought to look at the real switch operations from time to time for realism. The funny thing is, I asked more than one BNSF guy who ran trains and they all said it was a thing. (our normal op crew here near Ft.Worth has a lot of real railroaders) That said, the one said they would skip it if in a hurry. And, I do know some loads, like newsprint (for which the high cube box was invented, as standard height boxes could fit two rolls, HC got three high) get packed in tight. I can see having left only a small bit of receiving room at the end of loading for those. And, the big bulk may not be centered on the door if stacked in from the end. For other loads, I could see it wouldn't be as important. For instance, even if loaded right to the max, smaller items like refrigerators (less than width of door) could be removed from either side via forklift. So, it seems like my "solution" would be one industry that requires it, like newsprint recycling, but most do not. I think one or two instances per switch run might be fine, but I have opped on a layout where the Owner requires nearly every box car to be turned at one industry, using a tight wye, and it does get old, fast. Perhaps the biggest offender in model railroading reality would be backing an entire train up to attach a caboose, which rarely happened.
Jeff, Envious as hell with news of the ride along. Nothing like it. You are so correct. Although we've done that time and again on John A's layout. When spotting one car, I've left the caboose on the main while making the switch, which isn't so unrealistic. Backing the train to tag the crummy and then do a brake test after all the glad hands have been reunited. Grin! Usually a local would pull into a run through siding and drop the cars and caboose not being spotted, crossover the main to spot or pick-up a car from an industrial spur. All in the name of not fouling the main. Sounds to me like you have plenty of Rails, the Professionals hanging around. Wonderful teachers those guys and gals. Geez, I wish I was close by to kick some cars.
Those ride alongs are a lot easier to get if: 1) On a long industrial spur (as GSW is) reducing chances of supervisors coming out to check, and 2) You have an adorable 2-5 year old son/grandson as ride bait! (or a stand in borrowed from a neighbor.....) As things stand now, I will probably never attain my bucket list of riding on a full speed mainline train in a caboose! OT, but years ago in Minnesota, I was standing track side on the LTV-Erie Mining RR, and the engineers of the famous 4 unit F set offered to let me ride to the lake, but I would have had no way to get back, thus missing a rail fans dream. I did (illegally of course) venture into their Hoyt Lakes engine facility, finding a diesel house full of Alcos and Baldwins looking much like a museum......
Yep, that's worked for me a time or two. And the same set of consequences kept me off of a cab ride with a dear old friend of my grandad. Nobody to pick me up in Needles, Ca. Somewhere in Michigan a private line sells seat tickets for riding a crummie. Also, locally Perris, CA., does the same thing.
