Amazing... There is no history of us not "playing well with others"...frankly we invested the US Market early on and provided goods and services (and still do), and played an important part in making it what it is today along with the efforts of AZL and others. We had to make a difficult business decision, one some don't, or don't want to understand. (I'm sure Rob K understands this well considering what he had to endure in a previous thread) But I doubt explaining it makes a difference anymore. Old habbits are hard to break and the haters are going to hate regardless of what we do. I gotten the same talking points on other web sites as well...kill it before it happens...assume the worst...mock any and all efforts regardless of outcome...all predictable...by folks rarely "play well with others" themselves. Hopefully they can put this irrational anger aside, go out side and play in the sunshine more, or step aside and give something a chance before passing judgement. Ball's in your court...there's alway room for more than one Z Society...looking forward to your press release...and I promise to give it a chance. Joe
Bill, You must drive slower than I do. I did Portland to SD in 15 hours. On another MUCH MORE IMPORTANT note, you mentioned fly rods. We need to talk! Cheers, Jim CCRR
Dave. Just for giggles, I checked flight scheds and found a United flight that leaves Medford at 6AM PST and arrives Denver at 9:17AM MST. I don't think you could ask for better service than that. ---Steve from the other Phoenix
Thinking about it Right now I need information on how far Crater Lake is, on the map it doesn't look too far. If it isn't then I think I'll start the fund for wife and me to go. The Lake would appeal to the other half. :sweat:
why thank you steve! i'll follow up on that. i appreciate your taking the time. btw -- we had a personnel meeting this afternoon and i typed up something about my busy april-may 2010 -- looks like i may have found a formula to get the time away. i hope others will fortunate enough to find time and opportunity to attend as well. dave f.
It's about 60-70 miles from Medford. Hwy 62 goes right past the convention site and sort of straight on to Crater Lake. It's a nice drive, you'll have a good time there as well as at the convention. ---Steve
Hello Joe, I normally do not post a lot on the forum. Hardly at all. However your email has enticed me to make a few remarks. I saw where you announced the following: "establishing a yearly Z Convention starting in 2010" This is commendable and I applaud you and the MTL team for your efforts in doing this. It has been a while since we have had a National Z scale Convention and its has been a while since the Z Scale community has been united as purely hobbyists (just having fun). Then I saw this statement: Micro-Trains Line will host the first National Z Scale Convention™ This was the rub Joe! The reason this has rub me is for the following reason. Joe, you (whether you accept it or not) are a senior Ambassador of Z scale. This honor unfortunately come with a lot of responsibility. Part of that responsibility is being a historian, mentor, communicator and even cheer leader. Its the historian role that I would like to address with you. I am curious as to how this event can be the first? You see I remember attending an event in Plano, TX many years ago. I also remember attending an even much much larger event that was held in Dublin, OH during the week of the Cincinnati NMRA. I even got an MTL Commemorative Box Car depicting the Dublin, OH event. See Joe, as one of the more senior ambassadors, I need you, no no, I depend on you, to keep a history of the contributions made by Z Scale members here today and the members that have departed. You see I am under the impression that these achievements should be honored and built upon and not discarded as "that was then this is now". History is important to us in Z Scale and I know it is important to you as well Joe. I want dwell on this as I know you will research these two events and make the required corrections in your statement and/or advertisement. (smile) Last but not least I noticed that the event you are sponsoring has a Trademark. How is that possible? One of the characteristics of the two events that I had attended was that no one person or business owned the event. Think about that Joe, none of the attendees, supporters, small or large companies, brick/mortar or internet companies, foreign or domestic companies, one man operations or multiple employee companies claimed total ownership. They only claimed their share of their support but never ever the whole event. They wouldn't Joe! They knew they were part of a community event that was greater than the parts and they knew it was owned by all. This is something you cannot teach a company to understand. You cannot even teach someone in their marketing department. You have to feel it and breathe it and live it. You have to sincerely and honestly be a Z scale community member and in your case a strong community leader. I have spoken enough. I hope you and/or MTL choose what is right for the longevity of all and not the short gains of a few. Thanks for all of your contributions and the greater ones to come. Jeffrey
...of Crater Lake and Trademarks Something to know about Crater Lake that time of year; if the park is open there will still be a lot of snow, maybe requiring chains or traction to get up there. Won't be picnic weather and the lodge won't be open (pretty sure on all that). As for the convention trademark, I haven't asked but I'm guessing, the fact that a manufacturer is paying the tab, including 2 big meals and "field trips", may have something to do with protecting their interest and investment on THEIR first convention. True, you have to pay for your transportation and rooms but I believe they are negotiating a convention discount at the hotel(s). There are scads of places around here for RV parking and camping (but not in our living room!!!). Let's just put down our weapons (of the finger pointing nature) and enjoy a "family" reunion. We'll have priZes, lots of Z vendors with all kinds of goodies and you know how rare those are at any regular train show, big dinners together, riding live steam scale at the Medford Railroad Park (free BBQ!), seeing "old" friends we've never met before, having one heckuva modular layout and running loooong Z trains on them. Shoot, this is going to be fun no matter who it is paying a chunk of the tab (but thank you MTL). Maybe another manufacturer can pick up the tab the next time, no Loren, not StoneBridgeDesigns!!! They want a first class convention not a 2 bit side show! Thank you to all of you who have committed to coming to our humble town, and to those who wish they could. The airlines who regularly go in and out of here are United Airlines/Sky West, Alligent, Alaska/ Horizon, and um, I think those are the major ones. Maybe Delta or subsidiary. We have so much old west history here in Jackson County but there is plenty more up and down I-5. There is even a railroad hotel in Dunsmuir where you can stay in finely refurbished cabeese.
I guess I don't see the fuss to be honest with "First" being used. By trade marking the name we reserve and protect it from being used for something else, or by someone for other reasons. We are not planning on owning it...it will belong to the Society when it takes shape. I think that's prudent. We also bought a number of Web Domains for the same reason...to protect the identity for the society for future use. If folks want to think there's something else going on, prove it. We are trying to establish something here that doesn't currently exist nor has in the past. What we are attempting here is a first...there currently doesn't exist a national society for Z scale, nor a reoccuring event or governing body in support of that. I know the history and I appreciate my position in the industry and it's clear to me that what was done in the past was significant, but in no way created anything beyond those events in support of something like we are proposing. Jeff, if you want to put a fine point on this about using "First"...review the flyer for the 2005 Convention "Columbus-Cincinnati" and find the word "National" anywhere on the front page. It's called the 2005 Z Scale Convention...not 2005 National Z Scale Convention... Is it a national convention just because people from out of town attend...would a show in Atlanta that we attended be a National show because we were there or still a regional one? And, this is in now way a slight to the show in Columbus or the work done at the NTS later that week. It's just a name...not an attempt to re-write history or insult someone...it's just a name. Joe
Wow! A Z-scale convention, finally!! That would be great ... but bad for me ... because if MTL were to announce at the convention that they were coming out with a Z-scale CSX SD40-2, I just might have to sell all my N-scale stuff and jump into Z again! Then, I'll have to change my name to Zx6&Nx2!! That hurts just thinking about it!!
i have some good news and i have some bad news. the good news is that you don't have to wait for next year's convention to own CSX SD40-2s!! the bad news is ... you're going to have to start selling. see you around the forum, Zx6&Nx2! dave f.
Obviously Dave, you live in the wrong geographical region. Just pack up your belongings and move to beautiful Rogue valley. I think we can find you a job at MTL, say, maybe Joe's test builder? Free parts bins, scads of shells, couplers, springs, motors, etc. etc. Joe would probably share his paint booth with you too? Your congregation should know by now what to do and what not to do. Let them hash it out.) Come if you can....
Bill, the fishing here is great, so is the scenery and fresh air. Just get here with whatever you want to bring....don't forget your sense of humor!
OK, let's cut to the chase here... There are those, myself included who want to keep Z history in tact. I was concerned when "The First.... National Z Scale Convention" letter showed up. My concern was actually based off the value of my commemorative 2005 Z Scale Convention Car, thinking that it came from the First Z Scale Convention... It did as far as I'm concerned. Well I looked over my car, and guess what.. It don't say National Z Scale Convention in the wording on the box, instead it reads "This Limited Edition special run car commemorates the 2005 convention in Columbus Ohio" OK, so now that I have a better understanding of what's happening, of what MTL is trying to do here, I am cool with the wording "The First.... National Z Scale Convention", and cool with "National Z Scale Convention ™". What it looks like is happening here is the National Z Scale Convention ™ is being started up by MTL to secure the name of a future organization by that name, which will be, going forward, ran much like the National N Scale Convention. As far as I know, the National N Scale Convention is a lot of fun, occurs annually in a different region of the US, has all kinds fun activities, and excludes NO ONE. This is a GIFT to us Z Scalers, which yes, has been done before by Ztrack Magazine, AZL, MTL Marklin and others, and in no way attempts to de-value any of those previous conventions. Let's take it for what it is... a Gift from MTL and All the others who will be contributing, A gift that hopefully will succeed in returning each year, sponsored by those who are members of The National Z Scale Convention ™. Let's all be part of it, and have a great time. Ztrack Magazine, AZL, MTL, and everyone else involved in Z Scale!
John, Quit staying up so late......you're sleeping in way too long. This IS August and I don't see any CSX SD40-2s around here. Just wait two weeks for the glorious announcement by MTL. CSX is painted and ready to roll. September is the magic month. John, you just gotta pay more attention )
I don't really want a Vendors Table Loren. As you know I'm not into the selling side, rather into creating Z Scale stuff, and enjoying Chad Bryan and Bill Kronenberger's Z-Bend Track Modular Standard! I'll bring some diorama's of stuff I made, and samples of models I made, and display them somewhere. I'll contribute to goodie baskets too! But most of all, I'm going to have fun! Run Trains on ZBT Modules, Eat lots of tasty junk food! Drool over brass Z Scale stuff, trade some of my junk with others for their prizes, you know, get deep into the whole Z Scale experience! Maybe roam the streets at night with some of the guyZ after hours and wake up like this:
