Colorado & Southern No. 9

bravogjt Mar 7, 2009

  1. bravogjt

    bravogjt TrainBoard Member

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    Sometime ago I came across the engine below in Palisade, CO.

    [​IMG]

    Based on appearance I did not think that this was the same No. 9 that I had rode behind in Georgetown,CO several years ago pictured below.

    [​IMG]

    Well the engine in the top picture is the C&S No. 9 and you can read about her restoration on this link. Engine No. 9 gets makeover, again.

    Ben
     
  2. JCater

    JCater TrainBoard Member

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    Hard to believe what they were able tro do with her. Too bad she did not work out on the Georgetown Loop railroad after all of that work.
     
  3. bravogjt

    bravogjt TrainBoard Member

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    Here is a link to the website of the company that is restoring her Mammoth Locomotive Works. The company is right here in the Grand Valley and I had no idea that they even existed.

    Ben
     
  4. JCater

    JCater TrainBoard Member

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    WOW! They are over in Palisade? Hmmmm...sounds like another road trip is in order :D
     
  5. Stourbridge Lion

    Stourbridge Lion TrainBoard Supporter

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    Yep, that is C&S#9

    To bad the historical society didn't listen that this engine was not right for the GTL as it took a beating trying to haul more load then it was designed to handle. It will be interesting to see it back in Breckenridge and what they might do with her...

    :tb-nerd: :tb-nerd: :tb-nerd: :tb-nerd:
     
  6. bravogjt

    bravogjt TrainBoard Member

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    Let me know when your headed that way and I'll give you directions.

    Ben
     
  7. JCater

    JCater TrainBoard Member

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    I'll let you know, maybe we could meet up and go railfanning...
     
  8. bravogjt

    bravogjt TrainBoard Member

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    That would be fun!

    Ben
     
  9. bravogjt

    bravogjt TrainBoard Member

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    I drove through Palisade yesterday morning and took a couple of shots of old # 9.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Ben
     
  10. JCater

    JCater TrainBoard Member

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    OK....now I am REALLY confused. I thought they restored this thing to the glory of old as shown in the other photos?
     
  11. BoxcabE50

    BoxcabE50 HOn30 & N Scales Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    Interesting story. I hope there are no major flaws to overcome, after her use at Georgetown loop.

    Got a chuckle out of the comment by "Bruce" at page bottom. His assertion is incorrect.

    Boxcab E50
     
  12. bravogjt

    bravogjt TrainBoard Member

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    Me too...

    Ben
     
  13. BNSF FAN

    BNSF FAN TrainBoard Supporter

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    Looks like they are comletely striping the old girl down for this rebuild. If they went this deep for a rebuild, she will be as good as brand new when done. Lets hope that's how it goes. Nice shots Ben!!! :) :) :)
     
  14. JCater

    JCater TrainBoard Member

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    So #9 went back for another rebuild? I doubt that very much. Is'nt that the original boiler from earlier shots? I suspect that they could not use that boiler for some reason and have a replacement on the current #9?
     
  15. BoxcabE50

    BoxcabE50 HOn30 & N Scales Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    Looks like the real #9 to me.... Probably needed a complete inspection and many repairs after it's pounding at Georgetown.

    Boxcab E50
     
  16. DSP&P fan

    DSP&P fan TrainBoard Member

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    I'm a month late on this thread, but it still is interesting.

    No 9 received a quick-and-dirty overhaul before. If the FRA chose to exert authority over the loop (which is ambiguous), she would instantly be dead in the water as she has a now-illegal lap steam boiler. Further, she was operating under reduced boiler pressure which resulted in this massive 2-6-0 (30% more powerful on paper than the D&RG 4-6-0s) not being able to pull as she ought to have been...to say nothing of what was needed on the running gear.

    She's headed to Breckenridge due to the deal they made a few years ago to provide Breckenridge with a locomotive that can be moved on special occassions. The solution is to operate #9 with compressed air on their demo track (the current work). IIRC, the 111 will be running on the Loop. #74 is in even worse shape than #9...which is why it is parked. CHS lost their ownership share in #71...which is why she hasn't been used. It is worth mentioning that the FRA has begun to exert authority over the Loop...so the condition of #9 is now a moot point.

    Thanks for sharing the photos and story about her.
     
  17. BoxcabE50

    BoxcabE50 HOn30 & N Scales Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    So the #9 can never steam legally again?

    Boxcab E50
     
  18. JCater

    JCater TrainBoard Member

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    Wow, the plot gets thicker! Sounds like 9 won't be under steam without a major overhaul. CHS has, IMO, made a huge mess out of the Loop which is saying a lot from me since I work with those folks as a contractor. Better to bring the shays back...
     
  19. DSP&P fan

    DSP&P fan TrainBoard Member

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    Essentially, #9 is probably parked for a long time...perhaps permanently. Lap seam boilers are only an FRA no-no. If you have a line which is: a) isolated from railroads which cross a state line and b) doesn't cross any roads. I had previously understood "b" as being state routes and bigger as the cutoff...but the road under the high bridge, as I understand it, is what the FRA has used to exert authority...and it isn't a state route. With the FRA out of the picture, it varies by state...Colorado allowed it for #9. I believe that she could be used on the Loop without issue if you either remove the high bridge or do whatever is legally necessary to remove the ambiguity of the road's ownership and make it a private drive/close it. Just move the eastern loading area outside of the Loop! (btw, it is worth noting that originally both Silver Plume and Georgetown blocked rebuilding the line into their towns (I-70 also was probably a factor ;-)), which is why the FRA didn't have clear authority to block what #9 did do).

    I made a point to avoid discussing the Loop's management as it is like a room full of gasoline...using your cell phone will blow people up! The shays will not be coming back. They are owned by the Ashbys....and they have enough reasons to be mad at the CHS for the rest of eternity. At the same time, I do not want to slight the current operator as I understand that they are stretched thin trying to keep the operation alive. I have no first hand knowledge of the situation, I do not know the parties involved, and so I cast a tear for how it unfolded and try to avoid setting off the powder magazine that is the Ashby-CHS-Loop issue.

    Btw, one thing I always find baffling is how frequently #9 is refered to as a "little" or "diminutive" engine. I mentioned its tractive effort, and so I feel obliged to mention its size. It is bigger than #60, the T-12s, the C-16s, the C-17, and the C-18s. It is the same size as the C-19s. In other words, it is one of the biggest 3' gauge moguls ever built. That being said, the loop's short length and 3% grades do make it perfect for shays which are far more effective on grades than comparable rod locomotives (the SRR's shay could pull 3.5x as much as their comparable sized 2-8-0...but was too slow to use).

    I hope to someday catch #9 under compressed air at Breckenridge. It is very appropriate, in my view, for her to be at Breckenridge. She was primarily used on the High Line...Leadville to Denver via Breckenridge and Como...and the local group has worked hard to build a museum. I view #9 as being the only engine which I would be happy seeing it anywhere other than its current home (#74 belongs in Boulder whose people saved her, #71 belongs in Central City where the people are responsible for saving her, #60 belongs with the fire department whom has cared for her and coach 70, and #191 belongs in Golden from the efforts of CRRM to bring her home).

    Btw, CHS also owns a K-37...but it couldn't be operated on the loop...it couldn't get around the 30 degree curve on the high fill.

    EDIT: Clarification on FRA jurisdiction. The C&TS is FRA...it crosses a state line. The D&S is FRA as it crosses a state route. If the SN trackage under discussion is relayed, I believe that it will fall under the FRA because it would connect with the FRA regulated D&S...but I'm not 100% certain on that (and besides, the 315 is FRA complient). If I lay a quarter mile of track in a field...I can thumb my nose at the FRA...but if I tie into a local shortline with a connection to the national rail network, the FRA will thumb its nose at me. State rules apply regardless. The FRA is who requires the ultrasounds every 15yrs. Rules against friction bearings, wooden cars, and cast iron wheels are banned for interchange. Any railroad can do what the please with these, but typically no one else will touch them. Of course, nearly all narrow gauge cars strike out on all three...but no two ng roads connect today. Exceptions I can recall are the roller bearing equipt EBT coach #8 and the newer steel coaches at Durango (they look like they're wood).
     
  20. JCater

    JCater TrainBoard Member

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    Ah...#74 brings back memories. I climbed all over that thing when I was kid. At the time it was, if memory serves, in Scott Carpenter Park. No rubber safety mats, no chains preventing entry...if you banged our head on a steam line or got your head stuck in a driver it was your own fault ;)

    A quick point of clarification. CHS is the State Historic Preservation Office for Colorado and as such OWNS nothing. They oversee the preservation of buildings, items, and archaeological sites that are part of the state trust. As such, the people of Colorado own these materials. CHS should have learned a lesson from the shay and #9 mess...they do not belong in the business of railroads. The Ashbys would not be the only family to have been stung by a SHPO and certainly will not be the last. But #9 should be happy in Brekenridge, I agree that is where she really should be. I do hope that a restoration group can have at her so that someday she will steam again.
     

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