Well the initial results are in. Right off the bat, the source files loaded in this guy are TERRIBLE!!! The bell AND whistle cut off mid-sound. Other sound files are acceptable at best, but probably only so when compared to that bell and whistle. And how can you call this an AC-12 sound set with out the uniquely identifying air spew?! The installation went great. I installed it as per the instructions because this was my first ever sound install, so best not to take any risks yet. The sound volume is low as stated, but just barely acceptable by my preferences, though that is only after setting the volume CV to its max. I prefer sound at a lower volume because at 4 feet, to scale you're about 640 feet from the loco. Chuff and idle sounds aren't really audible at that distance from the prototype. I expect later on with a better enclosure the volume might yet increase some, yes? Sound quality I think is excellent! Last night I downloaded Digitrax SoundLoader and the Challenger sound project to play around with. The sounds that come out of the SDN144PS sound just like the sounds that come out of my computer when I play the sound project. But again, the source files are just terrible!! Motor control, again excellent! On par with any other Digitrax decoder. By default, the chuff rate is not even close to the actual locomotive movement, but some quick tuning should get that set. By default, the top speed for me was about 20smph, just like slotcardave, however after setting CV 02>002, CV05>154 and CV55,56,57 all to 0 as river_eagle suggested, top speed is much improved. Overall, the initial response is that this decoder is a great option for entry-level sound. Motor control, sound quality are great, volume could benefit from a boost, but is acceptable in my opinion. The worst part of this decoder are those source files, which unfortunately compromise any quality in sound output. For entry level sound, great product. For crowd pleasing sound, make sure you have your own custom sound project, otherwise leave this one on the shelf.
Well, I guess I am glad I went with the Tsunami for my AC-12, then. Hey, one question. How BIG is this thing? The Digitrax photos make it look small enough that it could potentially have a lot of applications in diesel locos. What do you think? Adam
It's definitely a size friendly decoder. Not as small as the Micro Tsunami, but at about 1/3rd the price, its small enough for entry level sound.
Thank you for the instant size comparison. Seeing it relative to the AC-12 tender and the quarter makes it immediately apparent how big it is. I don't think some of these folks who take the photos for Digitrax went to architecture school, where they encourage us to put human figures in drawings to provide some scale. I used to actually WAIT for someone to walk in front of me while taking a photo of a building so that I would have a human scale figure to give me an instant feeling for the size of a place later when looking at the photos. So, what I take from your evaluation is that the sound project files are rough, but that your feeling is that if someone had BETTER sound project files they could get excellent sound playback - something akin to you can have a good stereo set-up but if the recording you try to play on it is poorly mastered it's still going to sound terrible. Is that your impression? Does that SoundLoader or whatever it is have some sort of editor? Does it accept files from other sound editing programs? Do you see a potential for basement hobbyists to start building their own sound files and then sharing them with each other? Adam
Exactamundo! SoundLoader has no audio editing, however it accepts any .wav file for use as sound. Digitrax has a small list of free sound editing software recommendations listed on their site. Not only do I see a potential for the basement hobbyist to begin building custom sound files, I think thats practically a requirement if you want this decoder to be show quality. It's really a complete shame Digitrax didn't put more work into their source files. Within 30 minutes last night, I found a bell and whistle file online that puts the file Digitrax used to utter shame. Also, SoundLoader is a free download from Digitrax to custom build sound projects, however you'll need to purchase/rent/borrow the PR3 SoundFX Decoder Programmer ($85 MSRP) in order to install that sound project to the decoder.
I see some real potential here once there are some sound files worth a darn, or for enterprising individuals who have some skill in editing sounds.
... Given the price and performance so far, this decoder COULD have been a huge contender to the Micro Tsunami. Unfortunately the ugly source files dealt a severe blow to this product. :thumbs_down: Worst case, you'll spend 40 bucks on a decoder just for good motor control anyways. I just muted the sound for a few laps and I'm at least satisfied with its performance with out sound.
That's a tough one to call. I can get it to to do a perfect steam start one time, but then the next 2-3 times it goes 0 to 10mph instantly. I still haven't figured out how to adjust the chuff rate to match my drivers. Maybe when I figure that out, I'll better be able to tune the start up / crawl speed. :/
I think the main appeal of this decoder to me is the uploadable sound files. I could care less about the default sounds. You can buy the decoder and a PR3 to program it, cheaper than the cost of a Tsunami or Loksound. I think their cost savings is in the fact that they only have to sell one sound decoder. Tsunami has to stock 6-7 different models, each with unique sound sets. That is more manufacturing and stock to deal with, thus the cost goes up. There will be an art to creating sound files for this decoder, mainly becuase you are not just recording a single sound. To set the sound files up properly you need to break the sound down into: Attack, Sustain, and Delay. Each sound is to be saved this way meaning the decoder can vary the durations of any sound. I think the hardware is there, it is just the sound library that is holding things back and that will grow quickly as people get these in their hands and start experimenting. The nice thing is, if somebody comes up with a better sound file than yours, it is an easy download to update it. It has basically the same features as the Tsunami, plus programability and a better motor drive for almost a 1/3 of the price. (So far I have had 2 Tsunami's fail in my GS-4. I just gave up and put a DZ125 in the boiler and followed John Columbo's lead, don't use the Tsunami for motor drive.) Give the Digitrax a chance to prove itself. I still need to decide what to put mine in. I don't think the AC-12 is a good test mule as they were a little stiff anyhow and the start voltage is way up there. A better test will be a Spectrum or Kato Mike. Also somebody needs to play with different speakers.
After playing around with SoundLoader a while, one thing I'm not finding is the ability to customize the sound sequencing. For instance, there's no air spew with the SDN144PS, but even if I were to load one in SoundLoader, I dont see any way to adjust the sequencing to include that spew with the locos idle sequence. :/ Hopefully this possibility is there and I just cant find it. I agree the potential of this product is huge, but if the customizable options are limited to just replacing the default stuff with better sound files and not being able to completely reconfigure the sequencing, that would be another severe blow.
It's not, and never was meant to be(unless they have changed it). Form Digitrax's description of the SDN144PS: "Preloaded with generic diesel and steam sound schemes." I guess partly due to it arriving on shelves shortly after the AC-12 and partly due to having an example AC-12 install in the manual, many people seem to think this decoder was designed specifically for the AC-12, but it wasn't.
Ok, I figured out some more on this one. With CV57=000 (Speed stabilization off), the slow speed of the AC-12 is terrible. This may be, as pointed out, due to the power hungry motor used. (Remember how slow she ran at full power on your system when I last visited?). When I set the speed stabilization as follows, her slow speed performance transformed into a dropped jaw and speechless moment. It was gorgeous! CV55=064, CV56=024, CV57=005 As promised, I'll get a video posted to show it. But first, I still need to figure out the chuff rate. This one's getting me a little frustrated as at one speed step, the chuff rate is 2x slower than it should be, then on the next speed step, it will be 2x faster! :bulgy-eyes: Slowly making progress. I just cant get over how TERRIBLE the horn and bell sounds are! They absolutely have to go, as I can not stand listening to them. Unfortunately that means I have to drop another 80 bucks on this thing. Makes you wonder if Digitrax just dropped the ball, or purposely use those sounds to boost PR3 sales. Two thumbs way down on this one. :thumbs_down::thumbs_down:
Some more observations on the SDN144PS today. I've spent the most time playing with this thing to get the chuff rate in proper sync with the AC-12 drivers. I finally conclude that it is simply not going to happen. By the time the AC-12 starts to creep along in perfect slow speed crawl, the chuff would already be going 40 miles an hour. However, what is infinitely worse, if I tune the chuff down to the correct rate at slow speed, each time the chuff sounds, the loco hiccups. And it's a big hiccup. Furthermore, by the time the loco reaches ~20smph, the chuff is way off again. With that issue, and the HORRIBLE, horrible sounding bell and whistle, I throw in the towel and DO NOT recommend this decoder for any steam locomotives. However! Once I gave up on that, I decided to flip it over to the SD38-2 sound scheme to see what was up. Compared to the steam scheme, the sounds that came out of the decoder now were AMAZING!! The bell actually rings out without being cut off, and the horn sounds great too. Having no visual cues to distract from the notching sounds, which also sounds good, I would say this decoder will be a great option for diesel locomotives! In fact, when I visit home next week, the first thing I'm going to do is yank it out of the AC-12 and find a diesel to put it in. There are a few other observations which I'm not too impressed with, however I'm not going to put full blame on the decoder as it may be partially my MRC Prodigy Express. But the sound response time is quite distracting. Specifically the horn. When I try to sound a quick short short start warning by tapping F2 twice, instead I get about a 1 second horn, followed by a 1 second pause, then about 4 out of 5 times, I dont even get that second blast. Also (though more noticable on the steam scheme), it seemed any function sound when activated will cut off certain background/idle sounds. For instance, with the loco sitting idle, I could hear the generator wind up and begin running. A quick tap on the bell, and the generator would cut off. Anyways, I'll work on getting a video made tonight, but as I said, I absolutely do not recommend this decoder for any steam locomotive. However, I have high hopes for diesel units though.
As promised, here is my video review. I didn't go into as much detail as I originally hoped, but you get the main points. Sound is terrible, Motor control with chuff sound is terrible, motor control without chuff sound is beautiful. And the sound output quality is slightly better straight from the decoder as the video clearly picked up a lot of background static. So as you can see from the video, this is definitely a great piece of electronic equipment, but gosh darn those sound source files!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9LygpMgazg Enjoy! *Edit* Here is a reference for everyone on how the Tsunami Sound Decoder sounds/performs in the InterMountain AC-12, courtsey of JD Colombo. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3yWMK8eX8Tg Yes, the Tsunami MSRP is about 3 times the MSRP of the SDN144PS, but watch both videos and compare. I HIGHLY recommend saving up and using the Tsunami, as you can see it is most definitely worth it.
A couple of thoughts come to mind. First, the Tsunami is only about 2x more expensive from what I can see talking to my DCC suppliers. It may cost a little more due to some of the extra parts like an 8 pin plug etc. Also, don't discount the possibility of using the LokSound unit. I saw one of the Cab forwards at the Niles Canyon re-opening on the Ntrak layout with the LokSound unit and it was pretty amazing as well. These units may cost more, but you are getting what you pay for. As for the Digitrax decoder, I am not at all surprised. I have not heard great tings about thier HO SoundBug, and I have heard about problems with thier sound files. In one case, it sounded like it was recorded off an old movie or something. But sound files are easily remedied. What concerns me is the lurching of the locomotive with the sound turned on. When the sound is turned off, it looks like normal smooth control of the Digitrax mobile decoders. The lurching seems to indicate that the processor in the decoder is not fast enough or powerful enough to handle both tasks. Maybe it is low on local memory resources. This may also be a reason for the sound files not sounding so great. A 2 woo woo woo sample contains a lot less information than a 4 woo woo woo sample does depending on the sample width. Probably a little easier way of looking at it is that a 8 bit sample stored in 2 woo woo woo does not sound anywhere near as well as a 16 bit sample does in 4 woo woo woo. It has to due with quantization errors and other less glamourus things in digital signal processing. So if they are constrained by smaller memory allocation and narrower sample widths, there may be a definite need to revisit this design. In short, it looks like Digitrax is trying to do too much with too little horsepower under the hood. To fix this, the whole decoder would have to be re-designed. And it may just be in their interest to do it since Sondtraxx and ESU LokSound, Paragon2 and QSI are clearly miles ahead of this offering. Being the time of year for my other passion, I would say the Digitrax has the fundemental talent and potential of a Class A ball player, but they need to work on execution and consistency to make it to the show and be on par with Soundtraxx and the others. I think Digitrax can come around, but it will take a few more steps before they make it to the show.
The street prices I see for the Micro-Tsunamis (remember we have to compare to the micro, which runs higher than the regular) are around $112 compared to around $40 for the SDN144PS, not quite 3x as much but much closer to 3x than to 2x.
Just thinking out loud; Shark may have hit on something Mark, you're using the decoder with the original loaded sound set, with both the challenger and SD 38 sounds included. When I got mine, I loaded the Challenger sound set from the web site, which erased the memory of the entire decoder, (both sound sets) and only installed the Challenger sounds, much less memory used than original. Maybe trying to cram both sound sets into the decoder is just too much, since the chuffing is actually four seperate wav files cycling, as opposed to the diesel run wav just looping. May be this, along with the high loading of th AC's motor is just too much? Digitrax really need to address the lack of sound progects, especially steam, if they want these decoders to be successful.
Yep I agree. Were you able to at least get the chuff rate consistent with the drivers where it stayed in sync no matter the speed?
I wonder if the motor could be the source of other probelms as well. Do you have the capacitor installed? If not, I wonder if it could help with the slow speed "hiccup" with the chuff. Also, if the motor has an unusual response curve, it may be impossible to get good chuff synchronization without using the cam input. I would like to see some reviews from people using this decoder on other steam locos to see if some of the problems are loco specific or if there are inherent problems in the decoder itself.
