TIMX, please do consider posting logging and mining shots in the logging and mining group (linked in my sig file). The Z scale forum is where I go to see people doing stuff that sometimes in my N scale world I think may not be possible to do. If I see some guy doing a particular project here in 1:220 then I have no more excuses. Adam
Charlie thanks for bringing this one back to life... The perception about Z has been around since the beginning. But the last decade, and more importantly, the last seven years have been a game changer for Z scale. Let me try to put it into perspective. In 2002, US locos were limited to F7s, Marklin's Mikados & Pacifics, AZL brass C44-9W and AZL's brass PA1s (released in 2001). AZL brass E8s would be released in 2002. We also had MTL's brass Moguls that were on a Marklin chassis. That was basically it. Rolling stock was severely limited to mostly limited to MTL line of cars that were based on Nelson Gray's originals. Marklin did give us passenger cars as well. Since then, we have had... brass GS3s, brass, GS4s, brass AC12s, brass Challengers, brass SD45s, brass SD40-2s, brass tunnel motors, brass E7s, brass boxcab diesels (FR), brass New Haven electrics (FR) and other limited run brass locos. Injection locos has been a boon. F59PHIs, F40s, GP7s, GP9, GP30s, GP35s, GP38-2s, SD40-2, SD70Ms, SD75is (yes they are different), Budd RDCs, GG1s, 'Casey Jones', 'Commodore Vanderbilt', retooled F7s, SW1 kits and I know I am missing a few. Rolling stock... well let me give this may best shot. ACF 3-bays, ACF 4-bays, PS2, PS2-cds, 60' beer cars, 3564 gondolas, waffle gondolas, bi-level autorack, tri-level autoracks, 2-bay rib side hoppers, 2-bay offset side hoppers, 70 ton hopper, three bay rib-side hoppers, Bethgons, 48' Gunderson, 53' NSC well cars, 3-bay cylindricals, 4-bay cylindrical, steel side reefers, wood side reefers, 60' high cube boxcars, bay window cabooses, funnel flow tank cars, smooth side passenger cars (MTL and Marsilius), FMC 50 boxcars, 50 boxcars with plug door and no roofwalk, 60' bulkhead flats, 60' flats and so on. Rolling stock kits also have been a boon for Z scalers. Centerbeams, all-doors, cabooses, spine cars, circus wagons and many more. Now let's look at what is coming; Light and heavy Mikados, SD70s (sparten cab), AC4400s, SW1200, E8s, Big Boy (brass), 89' autoparts cars, centerbeams, heavy weight passenger cars, RTTX flats, wide cupola cabooses, mechanical reefers, and much more. It also should be noted that the Rokuhan track system as been a real boon for those wanting to start in Z. The point is that Z scale is in a tremendous growth period with manufacturers coming into the scale and doing well. The quality is excellent. True, we have not had the number of new products that N has, but we are making some considerable strides. It is a great time to be in Z! Rob
Wow! what a really funny thread! I never saw this.....you know what I think is more funny? It's that no one could come here and say the same comments they use to say back in 2002. Oh! Of course! one will try here and there to play Smart A.. against Zscale, but generally speaking, that kind of mockery would not pass a bit now, it would look too foolish.:cute: Boy!!! How far we've come! Ben
A soft data point... When I started what became the Unofficial Micro-Trains Release Report, there might be two, one or zero Z Scale releases to discuss. Now, the number of new Z Scale releases can sometimes rival the number of new N Scale releases from our friends in Oregon. I'm certainly busier than ever writing the UMTRR.
If you want to find something smaller than Z, we have the TT scale to pick on unless you count the miniature Lionel from Hallmark ornaments.
I converted from HO to N about 6 years ago. I don't think the size difference between N and Z would gain you that much more space. Besides, the Z scale market, though growing, is still slim pickins and not nearly as abundant as N, which is practically a smaller HO these days.
I just came back from the first day at the N Scale Convention, and guess what? There is only one N Scale layout, about 1/5 the size of all the Z Scale modules setup, with about a 30 second train loop time. We have about 20 ZBT modules, and it takes about 10 minutes to get a train around it. Z is making a big showing at the N Convention!
Wow, what a difference. At the N Scale Convention at Louisville KY a few years ago they had several HUNDRED modules set up. It took over THREE HOURS to make a complete loop. Mr Daves Z Scale was invited and was also there, but that was the only Z. After Louisville, maybe they are "worn out". ...don
Coreless motors and flywheels have made all the difference. It's far, far better to be a Z scaler in 2012 than an N scaler in 1977! Plus, Z has finally broken free of its limited sectional track geometry in just the past year or so with the expansive (and expanding) Rokuhan track line. Z needed it's own "Uni-track" for a long, long time - and even those hand-laying their own track or using flex have to agree that a solid sectional track product line helps bring new modellers to the scale. More customers - more goodies! Now let's see some more injection-molded motive power! Alcos, U-boats, dash whatevers, E units, all are welcome and could help boost Z to the next level.
Beeing only ~30% smaller, Z scale means that a Z scale layout covers twice less ground surface than its N scale counterpart. In my opinion it's not insignificant. In my own case, I simply couldn't have the same broad-curved layout in N than the Z sample I'm currently setting in a very small spare room of my appartment. Or it would be ridiculously out of scale, with curves far too tight, without the cross-over I just managed to set, etc.... Provided choice and quality of products is greatly improving year after year, myself I will continue to stick to Z scale as long as I'll be a modelrailroader. N is definitly too big for me. Dom
I have looked into Z for many a year, but in 2002 I had limited choices. At the time, I picked up a Z Santa Fe Blue Bonnet F7A and B and a few cars. Now however I see 2nd generation Geeps and more rolling stock, plus the sectional track with roadbed from Micro Trains. At one of my favorite dealers this past weekend, I noticed that Micro Trains released a B&M rebuilt GP9 in Z. I fought the urge to purchase it, since I have the B&M in N, Z maybe my chance to model CB&Q and early BN. I think as people's spaces become even more limited, Z will continue to become more popular. That combined with some of the very talented work I have seen here. Z is here to stay and only get better.
Lot of BN stuff and I hope, just down the tracks, more Q stuff. Even AZL is supposed to be coming out with a GP7 or 9 in the future.
Oh boy, that settles it then. Ever since I moved to the land of Lincoln in 1998, I have grown to love the old Q. Most of my N scale CB&Q only gets displayed at Railroad Days in Galesburg once a year.
Right now, I'm focused on HO. I have S American Flyer stuff I want to set up in some form of Chirstmas or portable display and I have G-scale stuff (not much) that I'd love to put in a garden when I have a backyard. And my club is both HO and N, so I have incentive to get at least a few pieces of N stock....but man, if I had unlimited funds, my next project would be a nice semi portable Z scale layout.
