DS64 Help Please

SPisMe1001 Feb 13, 2021

  1. SPisMe1001

    SPisMe1001 New Member

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    All,
    I have a digitrax DS64 powered by a 12.3 VDC Power Supply going through AX1 (-) and AX2 (+) terminals. I am using pushbutton control and working fine on Tortoise machine. When I plug in loconet cable (tested good with LTI tester and I use with UP5 panel and throttle) it fries the diode on the loconet ports of the DS64. Pushbutton control still works but I am not plugging loconet back in until I know what is happening.

    You can smell and see the damage that happens almost instantly. It's happened twice, what is going on???

    Kurt
     
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  2. SPisMe1001

    SPisMe1001 New Member

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    Anyone?
     
  3. BigJake

    BigJake TrainBoard Member

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    I'm not a Digitrax user, but I am looking at using some ds64's, controlled via the dcc track bus, but separately powered. I have a Pi-SPROG 3 DCC system.

    Does Loconet include power? Perhaps that conflicts with the power you are providing it?

    Just a thought...
     
  4. Dogwood

    Dogwood TrainBoard Member

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    Is that an original power supply?
     
  5. BigJake

    BigJake TrainBoard Member

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    Kurt,

    Ok, did some research, Loconet does not include power. But it does include ground.

    Are you SURE you have the negative (0V) side of your power supply tied to AX1(-) and the positive (12.3V) side of the power supply tied to AX2(+), per the DS64 Instruction Sheet?

    Please describe everything (what, how) that is connected to your DS64 when the problem occurred.

    I suspect the ground for the Loconet, and the ground for the power supply are not at the same potential, and a diode is losing the battle to ensure they are.

    What is the current capacity of your 12.3V power supply? The DS64 only needs 300 mA, and a much larger supply (more amperage) may be blowing the diode, rather than (as a smaller ampacity supply would) just not working until you detect/correct the problem.
     
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  6. SPisMe1001

    SPisMe1001 New Member

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  7. SPisMe1001

    SPisMe1001 New Member

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    I was not aware there was a ground in the loconet cable. Yes, input 12V+ and 12V- were in accordance with the wiring instructions. However, I measured the difference between the negative on "Power One" input power supply to DS64 vs. the power supply (PS2012) I am using for command station and got a difference of 14.3 volts between the grounds! Assuming the loconet cable ground comes from the PS2012 and knowing that ground is coming through loconet, that is probably the culprit!

    A friend recommended that I tie the grounds together from both power supplies and also tie them to earth ground. Thoughts?

    Thanks for your advice!!!
     
  8. BigJake

    BigJake TrainBoard Member

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    I'm not a Digitrax guy, just looking at using the DS64 with a different DCC system...

    BUT... from your power supply, is the voltage measured between 12V+ and 12V- something like 24V (nominal, could be about 28V or so), or something like 12V (again, nominal, could be about 14V)? In other words, is 12V- actually negative 12V, or is it GND?

    IINM, the DS64 is supposed to have a GND potential on AX1(-) input. If you are connecting -12V (nominal) to it, that would give you a difference of 12V (nominal) between AX1(-) and GND on the Loconet, when they should be close to the same voltage (0V or GND).
     
  9. SPisMe1001

    SPisMe1001 New Member

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    Sorry, new to the board but added another comment as a response to you, and you were right I think. ground was "floating" and difference between the ground of the input power supply and the power supply used for the DCC system was 14 volts! Most likely what caused the problem... I don't understand why digitrax insist we use seperate power supplies because this can happen... maybe they want to sell more power supplies!?
     
  10. TigerDude

    TigerDude TrainBoard Member

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    If you tied a 14v potential together you'd get a dead short. One of those connections is reversed.
     
  11. Mark Ricci

    Mark Ricci TrainBoard Member

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    Your post is interesting as I been thinking of using a DS64 with push buttons only (No DCC or connection to rails and No LocoNet) to operate Kato turnouts. Had contacted Digitrax support and they could not confirm whether the DS64 with push buttons only (No DCC connection or connection to rails and No LocoNet) could be used when powered either via the AX terminals or the barrel connection. 2nd paragraph Digitrax knowledgebase article referring that LocoNet must be used in order to connect to AX terminals or barrel?

    https://www.digitrax.com/tsd/KB814/powering-ds64/

    So, kinda have 2 questions...

    Unless I missed it, you did not mention whether the DC64 was also connected to track before you installed LocoNet? I'd really like to use the DS64 in the manner as you had (pre-LocoNet). So, the DS64 worked ok with PBs only and no track connection but powered by AX terminals?

    Ultimately, will want to use with DCC but No LocoNet so also interested if the DS64 can or should be powered via AX terminals or barrel when connected to track. Thinking is those alternate power options can only be used with LocoNet when there is no connection to rails otherwise difference in grounds can occur?

    Any input appreciated. Thank you
     
  12. BigJake

    BigJake TrainBoard Member

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    I believe if you want to control the DS64 via DCC, it must be powered only by the DCC connection.

    However, I have also heard of it "losing its programming" if powered by the DCC track bus, when a short on the bus occurs, e.g. due to a derailment or fouled switch.

    Even if the DS64 does not lose its programming, the DS64 cannot be commanded to throw a fouled switch (thereby clearing the fouling) when the fouling shorts the DCC bus controlling the DS64.

    I have seen recommendations to provide DCC for the DS64 (or any other stationary decoder controlling turnouts) from a separate booster (or from the main CS/Booster if and only if the CS/Booster only feeds things that are not likely to short out (e.g. if the CS/Booster only feeds other boosters, stationary decoders, etc.).
     
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  13. RBrodzinsky

    RBrodzinsky November 18, 2022 Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter In Memoriam

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    I power all the DS64s on the JACALAR via independent DC bus (not via DCC track bus), and control all of them via DCC (LocoNet), without an issue
     
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  14. BigJake

    BigJake TrainBoard Member

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    Rick,

    Thanks for the information. The information I got was not in their datasheet, but was in a guide on Digitrax' website. It was not clearly stated, so perhaps I misunderstood it. I wish I could find that note...

    However, if your DS64 power supply's output is isolated, as most wall warts are these days (i.e. floating, not grounded nor tied to anything else related to the DCC signal/booster), that may get around their issue. I "interpreted" their statement to indicate that it could conflict with the internal rectified supply derived from the DCC bus, which it likely could on some DCC systems.

    Even the DS64 supply is grounded, if the DCC supply is not grounded, it might also work.

    As always, no warranty is expressed or implied; your mileage may vary; yadda, yadda...
     
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  15. RBrodzinsky

    RBrodzinsky November 18, 2022 Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter In Memoriam

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    The key is to use the LocoNet. If you can only use the track for DCC signal, then that is also the power
     
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  16. BigJake

    BigJake TrainBoard Member

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    Rick,

    Ahh, sorry, missed that detail in your message. So yes, Loconet is required for control if you want to use the auxiliary power input to power it.

    If you don't have a Digikey system, you at least need a Locobuffer or PR4 to allow JMRI to control the DS64 via Loconet.

    I have a Pi SPROG 3 system.

    Is there a way to configure JMRI Panel Pro to use the SPROG for the track DCC (locomotives), and a PR4 or Locobuffer for the DS64's controlling the switches? And control both from WiFi throttles/apps?

    The Locobuffer would be less expensive than an additional booster and p/s.
     
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  17. Mark Ricci

    Mark Ricci TrainBoard Member

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    Thank you for the info. About wanting to use DS64 without DCC, has anyone else installed the DS64 with just pushbuttons for controlling turnouts, no track connection but using external power AX terminals or connector to power 64?
     
  18. RBrodzinsky

    RBrodzinsky November 18, 2022 Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter In Memoriam

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    Yes, I did that, initially, on a FreeMo-N module (just for testing purposes, until I got the proper controls installed). Works perfectly.
     
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  19. Mark Ricci

    Mark Ricci TrainBoard Member

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    Thank you for the info. Curious, did you use the ax terminals or the barrel connector when connecting power to the DS64?
     
  20. RBrodzinsky

    RBrodzinsky November 18, 2022 Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter In Memoriam

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    barrel connector
     
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