Route 66 thanx for bringing us to the transformer topic Today I want to discuss the options of how to power your G scale railroad with some advantages and disadvantages. Lets start with DCC battery operation, there are many advantages, you can take your trains anywhere and run them like at a club meet without the worry of what kind of track power is being used, you don't have to trench any under ground wires, you don't need to worry about having to install any isolationg tracks and switches. You don't have to worry pretty much about oxidation on your track. The downfall is that you have limited time runs, you need a dedicated trailing car to put in a battery such as a box car, you also need to have a battery changing station for ease of battery changes. Now lets move on to DCC constant track power, in this case you would use a transormer that would put out a constant supply voltage, usually between 12 to 24 volts depending on what maximum voltage requirements of your locomotives are. This indeed is a great set up, no worries about isolating tracks, you can run as long as you like and have a hands free operation by using a remote to operate everything, The down fall is that its hard depending on what DCC you are using in starting a diesel lashup since how in many cases you can only address one locomotive at a time, although I'm not too familiar with Locolinc and RCS systems, maybe they have something by now. The down fall is the huge expense, especially for someone like me, to convert 16 locomotives over to DCC would be a huge expense and you still have the track maintence to do. Another disadvantage is that most DCC systems can't operate on high DC voltage such as 24 volts. The option I chose is total track power control with a twist. Total track power allows you to run all day also, but you have to have isolating tracks and switches, you are also stuck turning off your locomotives manually if you wat to park it on a siding of the same track you want to run another locomotive on. This is more in my budget area and now for the twist. The transformers I chose are Bridgewerks MAG 1000 DL models which are fully remote controlled so in reality, I still have some remote power of my trains. Aristocraft offers a train command walk around system but it is still corded. Now if you are going transformer control you have to know what your manufactacurers maximum DC voltage requirements are and what type of DC output voltage they require. Aristocraft trains require a pulse width output DC voltage, the Aristocraft transformer takes the input voltage and changes it to a pulse width output. Now lets talk about AC voltage for a second, AC voltage is NOT a constant flow of electiricty like DC, if you were to put a oscillating scope on a AC current outlet, there would be steady spikes of electricity pretty much like a heart monitor. These spikes can be harmful to some locomotive motors because most transformers will take that same AC spike and transform it to DC power with the same spike in it, but you would never notice it on your transformer monitor because it happens so fast, usually a milli-second. This also brings us to why I chose Brdgewerks transformers, Bridgewerks transformers have a patented DC filtering system in each of their transformers, The Bridgewerks actually takes the spikes in AC voltage out before it transforms it into DC power giving you pure DC power. Brigewerks also has a huge selection of transformers and I actually got to meet the owner and founder Dave at the East Coast large scale train show. He is a great guy making time to help anyone out in there power need, he is 100% totally American and shows it, all of his transformers are made right here in the USA. His son works for a eletircal testing company so of the internal Bridgewerks electronics are fully tested under harsh conditions before it even hits the market. You get a 5 year warranty for anythig that goes wrong with it. I had a failure in one and it was 6 years old, when I called and told Dave about it, he said send it out and I'll fix it, I asked how much it would be, he said free, all you have to do is ship it, he told me he doesn't worry about the warranty dates and wants everyone to have these and pass them on to another generation, so I got it fixed for free. He also gets to see why the unit failed and improves upon it, you can visit bridgewerks site here www.bridgewerks.com
Route66 Now for your questions Answer for Question #1) I run 3 Bridgewerks Mag 1000DL transformers and 1 UR-15 Bridgewerks add on. Each transformer runs a seperate mailine and is marked on it as to what track number each one runs. The add on runs the trolley track. All 3 mainlines are isolated from each other, the trolley track is also isolated from the other 3 main lines. I can however run a train from track #1 however to track #2 with very little problems, but have to pay attention at the same time. Lets say I want to go on track #2 from track #1, I would set track #2 transformer to 10 volts on the meter first making sure the electric was flow ing the right direction, my bridgewerks uses direction lights, green for one way and red for another, so lets say I wanna back up onto #2 then I would make sure the light is red, then I would switch the 31 transformer to back which would also be red. Now all of the electric is flowing the same way, because I use USA locomotives with pickup shoes, this gives me an advantage to switch tracks with different transformers with no problems, the locomotives go thru with stopping or hesitating. Answer for question #2 I don't have to ryn multiple feeders since how I switched to 10 gauge wire feeds, also my Bridgewerks transformers came with gold plated banana plugs, then I use hilmans heavy railclamps to attach these wires with, I also used the least amount of connections possible in my straight tracks, using like 3 ft sections or more when possible. All of this combined keeps from having many connections, so the answer is no, I only have one connection per track per transformer. Although if I was outside I would put second connections on the opposite side of the layout for each track, I attached some pictures for reference. Since how I have 3 of these monsters that take in 3 amps each and only had one 15 amp ciruit breaker outlet nearby which was alos tied into the rest of the basment, I rewired the one outlet to be on it's own circuit breaker with a 20 amp breaker, I also installed 10 gauge house wire from the socket to the breaker since how I'm running 9 amps on one socket, this maybe overkill, but I don't want fires either.
pick-up shoes EMD Trainman, You have stated that most of the USA locos use pick-up shoes to aquire power from the tracks,are they located in the trucks? and are there four, two per truck? I have looked at the pixs of GP-9 and GP-7 but do not see them. Thanks
Route66 Sorry I we are being hit big a huge heatwave and had many power outages, so I wasn't on the board for a day or two. The USA locos use 4 pickup shoes per locomotive, 2 per power truck. USA did a nice job trying to hide them. They are located in between the drive axles in each power truck inside of the side frames.
EMD Trainman, thanks for the reply that's a relief that they hid them. I'm going to try this weekend to set up and run some of what I have on the patio if I get some time.
Route 66, I pefer the picl up shoes on the USA trains I never loose track power, there are only 2 locomotives USA makes that don't have pick up shoes, the NW-2 and the new S-4, those two also don't have the power trac motor blocks either, so if you want to pull a long work train plan on buying two of them.
This is a heck of a thread. It should be required reading for anyone going into G scale. I had no idea there were so many variances.
EMD Trainman, I'm also a Dodge,Plymouth,Chrysler fan!!! In know way was I knocking the pick-up shoes on the USA trains, I like the fact that they are hidden by the Truck side-frames. I think spring loaded pick-up shoes are an asset to performance in large scale.
emd trainman, just found this thread. and of course more or less read all the posts. there are some things i'd like to point out. there are some things i have to disagree completely. let's start with the pickup shoes used by usa trains. from my experience i have to say they are useless outdoor since they wear too fast. replacing the wheels with the traction tire by normal ones enhances pickup more than these shoes. weight is another factor. most of my locos are aristocraft as of these days. why ? they're heavy. lots of pulling powers and i nevered encountered pickup problems with them. because of their weight they seem to squeeze thru any residue on the tracks. i NEVER cleaned the track in my backyard since i installed the track 5 years ago. except wiping of branches, leaves and such. i encountered far more pickup problems with usa trains locos out of the box. this is why i remove the pickup shoes and replace traction tire wheels. if you intend to handle your locos and rolling stock quite often then aristo is the way to go. a little less detailed than usa trains but also less parts to break off. albeit usa seems to produce closer to prototype models. cylindrical hoppers coming to mind. they're beautiful but very fragile. especially since they really ride very low and the chains on the bay doors tend to catch things laying on the track. they need to be handled very carefully. in my opinion replacing plastic wheels with steel ones is an absolut must. far better tracking and in some way they keep the track much cleaner. also the klick-klack across railjoiners sounds much better. then there are couplers. i replaced all usa/aristo couplers with kadee ones. as long as the trackwork is 80% perfect they don't uncouple. if you indend to run loooooong trains i'd suggest body mounting the couplers. all of this happens on track. i use brass track. original lgb railjoiners but additionaly with a wire soldered across the rail joints. so far this held up quite good. just a few things i experienced/learned in the last few years.
Sandro Schaer Hi and thanx for your opinion all though we don't agree with each other in opinions it's ok because like I said in my last post thats why there are different manufacturers. The USA locomotives have more fragile parts and so do some USA ulitmate series rolling stock espcially the 55ft hopper car. I started this post to relay my opinions but don't mind other opinions and experiences either. I still have all the original shoes on all of my USA locomotives. We are also runing in two different conditions, I run indoors in a basment were humidity and moisture is a constant factor although I run a dehumiditifier, you never have a 100% dry conditions thru out the basement. The USA locomotives are lighter than Aristocrafts which to me in my opinion more rolling stock to pull as long as the traction tires do there job. I also have already discussed in past posts in my thread about converting over to metal wheels. In oreder for me to use kadee body mounted couplers I would have to covert to 10ft diameter track, espescially for my 55ft rolling stock cars and this is not an option indoors. I wanted to start a G scale indoor thread since how trying to find some articles or posts for indoor G scale modeling is rare, so I just figured I would post some opinions and pictures to help people along although my opinions may differ than that of a experienced G scaler such as myself who models outdoors. I have seen people use solder successfully on rail joiners, but have seen the solder eventually crack, I also seen people use hilmans rail joiners with a high flow electric grease in the joiners also. I have run a 40 car train successfully with USA trains couplers and no breakage. Now lets talk about facts that can be proven, In 2003 USA trains won the Model railroader magazine award for the J1E Hudson steam locomotive, In 2002 USA Trains won the Model railroaders magazine award for the EMD GP-30 locomotive, In 1998 USA Trains won the Model railroader magazine award for the EMD GP-9 locomotive, In 2003 USA Trains won the Model Railroader magazine award for the Ultimate series extruded aluminum passenger cars, in 2002 USA trains won the Railroader magazine award for the ultimate series 70 ton 3 bay hopper car, also 2002 USA trains won the model railroader magazines award for the ultimate series 10,000 gal tank car, and in 2001 USA trains won the model railroaders award for the ultimate series 40ft refrigerator car.
Route 66 Hi, I didn't make that one thread because I thought you were knocking the USA slide shoes. Having slide shoes in my opinion indoors is an asset, but everyone has their own opinion and experiences and thats what makes the world go around.
Flash Blackman Unfortunately not too many do know there are that many variances in G scale and nothing is standard except for the track width needed to run G scale. There are not too many books or magazines out there either. The reason why is that You can take every person in the world who modeled G scale and then compare that number to just those in the USA who models N, HO or O scale and in any one of those scale the number of people would out number the G scale people in the whole world. Another words G scale people is just a small fraction of the world sales due to the size, but people do't realize you can really put them almost anywhere. If you have a patio or deck, it's a perfect setting since how just about all G scale is indoor/outdoor use. If you have a fish pond you can run it around that or if you own a in ground swimming pool, a spare bedroom, the possibilites re endless actually. I have seen people run these trains outdoors and have a dog entrance door on there garage so they can put the trains away, I have even seen etry doors into basements from outside.
USA locos fragile parts For those who are getting into G scale for the first time or buying a USA train locomotive for the first time there are a few fragile parts on them I will go over in this thread. When buying the USA GP38-2, GP-9, GP-30 or even the NW-2 and the S-4 there are some parts that are not installed and come in a plastic bag. The reason why USA didn't install them is #1 they are fragile and will break in transit, #2 there was no way to put them on the loco and pack the loco with breaking these parts. You will have to install all handrails, most people leave them off because they are scared to break them. The tabs on the hand rails which you have to insert into the holes are fragile, jut make sure the hole is free from flashing before you install it, you also have to install all of the individual hoses, horns, bells and step plates. On the F3 units there is a warning sheet inside on how to handle picking up this partiucular locomotive, you can NOT hold it from the sides and must be picked up from the bottom or you will break the side fine mesh grille, the motor blocks on the SD40-2 and the SD-50 have to be handled with car when placing the locomotive on the track, the motor blocks are packed in foam since how they are a articulated motor block. You will have to remove the foam from the motor blocks. You don't have to necessaarly install these parts, some people don't and save them a side. If you do install these parts and break something later, don't get up set, USA trains a very nice illustrated parts list for every locomotive they ever built with a parts break down for each, just order what you need. They also sell the rubber tires and pick up shoes. If you prefer not to run pickup shoes like Sandro Schaer, you can buy the drive axle that doesn't have rubber tires on it seperately and install in in your motor block and take the pick up shoes off.
Rio Grande Tunneling Rio Grande was very successful during the 70s and that was in part due to their bread and butter locomotives, the SD-40T-2. Rio Grande started buying these locomotives new starting in 1974 and kept purchasing a certain number of new SD40T-2 locomotives all the way up to 1980. I own Rio Grande SD-40T-2 locomtives #5378, #5379 & #5380 in G scale. These locomotives were better known as "tunnel motors" and I'm sure there were more knick names around for them. Rio Grande #5378 in real life was purchased new in 1977 by Rio Grande, then after the merger with Southern Pacific it was repainted to the "SP" paint scheme but with the same loco numbers. After the Union Pacific buyout, #5378 was repainted to UP colors in 2002 and was renumbered to #8577, then it was repainted again to western Pacific colors in 2/07 but kept the #8577, the loco was scrapped in 3/07 and the diesel engine was turned into a gen set. Rio Grande #5379 was also bought new in 1977, It was repainted to a "UP" paint scheme in 1999 and was renumbered to #4063, it was then again renumbered to #8635 in 2000 for some unknown reason. In Jan 2004 it was sold to GECX railroad who kept the #8635, then it was sold again to HLCX railroad who renumbered it to #6145, I lost track of it since. Rio Ggrande #5380 was also bought new in 1977 and it was also repainted to "SP" colors after the "SP" merger but the #5380 was kept, In 1999 it was repainted to "UP" colors and renumbered to #4064, then it was renumbered again to #8635 in 2000, In Jan 2004 it was sold to HLCX railroad and was renumbered to #6146, again lost track of this one also. Today were are going back to 1977 and are going tunneling with my USA SD40-2 locomotives. Picture #2 is the SD40-2 entering the Bedroom area from the main living room area in the basement via a tunnel in the wall. Picture #3 is the SD40-2 in the bedroom which now acts a a main yard area Picture #4 I run a triple header SD40-2, Rio Grande ran triple header SD40-2 locos called "Helper Units" The helper units were always 3 SD40-2 units lashed togther and then put in the center of a long train to help certain trains go thru the mountains. Picture #5 Now the SD40-2 triple header has to yet go thru another tunnel which goes from the bedroom are (now yard area) and enters the work shop Picture #1 My SD40-2 pulls a long string of 16 50ft USA refrigerated and box cars. Remember the tighter the curve the more resistance you have in pulling, I run 8ft curves so 3 locos are necessary, if I ran a larger diameter curve I probably wouldn't need all 3, but it is neat to see a triple header in G scale I think anyway
How much difference does this make in traction? Is there a noticed loss? Or any problems getting sufficient electric pickup? Smaller scales don't seem to experience much change. Would G be different? Boxcab E50
USA SD-70 locomotives I don't want to confuse anyone, but you will notice in my past posts in this thread I refer to a double header USA SD-50 locomotives that I own. They are actually actually modeled after the EMD SD-70 and not the EMD SD-50. The reason why I keep refering to them as my SD-50 locomotives is that when USA came out with the SD-70 model they found out Rio Grande never owned any SD-70 locomotives so instead USA put Rio Grande SD-50 locomotive numbers on the SD-70 locomotive models they made. Sorry for any confusion this mya have caused. I actually own 2 USA trains SD-70 locomotives with Rio Grande SD-50 numbers on them, #5508 and #5507. In real life Rio Grande bought #5507 new in 1984, in 1988 was renumbered to #9851 with a yellow patch over the exisisting number but the DRGW paint colors were kept, in 1996 it was finally repainted to "UP" colors, in June 2007 it was retired, unknown if it was scrapped or sold. Rio Grand loco #5508 was also bought new in 1984, it was fully repainted and renumbered to #5102 in 2001, then renumbered again to #9852 in 2002, it was also retired in June 2007.
BoxcabE50 The bigger G scale trains do make a difference only because of the weight value. The traction control used by the two manufacturers like USA trains and Aristocraft for instance are quit different. USA trains believs in traction tires, this way you don't have to heavily weigh the locomotives down on the over hand some G scalers don't like traction tires. Aristocraft uses very heavy weight in their locomotives and no traction tires, but the heavy weight already in the loco has you in a disadvantage, espcially if want to pull a grade. So the point is there is a fine line between weight and traction for traction tires. Rolling resistance of the train you want to pull in a curve also affects traction in G scale for long trains. Since how USA trains uses pick up shoes on their locomotives I never had a electrical pickup issue, my electrical pick up issues always seemed to be with the Aristocraft locomotives that have no traction tires.
Realism in a G scale world Hi, today we will talk about how USA trains invests alot of time and energy in researching the rolling stock or locomotives they are about to build. When I first got into this hobby in 1999 and you wanted to buy an Aristocraft piece of rolling stock you liked, the one thing that kept me from buying it was the fact that Aristocraft used the catalog part number as the railroad number for that particular car. For example I own a Aristocraft flat car stock #46309, guess what the railroad number of this car is the same. Charles RO trains pretty much the same exact thing until it became USA Trains. When USA trains took over Charles RO they recognized that people wanted real life railroad numbers on the locomotives and rolling stock and not just any made up number either. They were so successful at this and popular that Aristocraft was eventually forced to do the same thing later. You can take any of my USA trains locomotives or rolling stock and you will actually find that road number on Rio Grande's roster since how I model mainly after Rio Grande I'm using them as an example. USA spends alot of time researching rosters to make sure they come with a product that has correct road numbers for the railroad of choice. Lets take for example my USA ultimate series 50ft double door box car in Rio Grande, the road number for that particular car is #65244. If you look up Rio Grande's roster you will see they bought a group of these in 1967 starting with road number #65200 to #65299 and they were 5,100 cubic feet box cars, these particular box cars were used for hauling metals such as copper, lead, tinplate and vanadium by Rio Grande, because these particular box cars were made so tough, some are still in service today including #65244. Picture #1 deleted by EMD Trainman Picture #2 is the USA trains ultimate series box car So now you know how much research goes into the USA trains rolling stock and locomotives. Don't get me wrong I own a few Aristocraft pieces, a matter of fact I bought a Aristocraft 2 bay covered hopper car this year at the East Coast large scale train show for 2 reasons, 1) It had actual railroad numbers on it and 2) they actually painted it in the correct color this time which is grey. The earlier version of the Rio Grande 2 bay hopper had stock numers for raod numbers and were painted orange which was incorrect for a 2 bay hopper car in Rio Grande, but I still own that one also. I still complain about having to buy steel wheels as USA trains ultimate series comes standard with steel wheels and all aristocraft comes with plastic wheels, another $15 added expense to the item price.
USA NW-2 history The USA NW-2 locomotive I had feature in the past post on this thread was modeled by USA trains after the real thing. In 1941 Rio Grande only bought 1 EMD NW-2 switcher locomotive and it was originally #7000, there was never really a calf unit to go with it. Later in September 1941 is was renumbered again to #100 as the USA version is also #100. Rio Grande sold the NW-2 in 1968 to Great lakes Steel factory where it worked hard. It was then resold again to East Camden and Highlands railroad, it was repainted and renumbered to #62. I did a goggle search and believe it or not I found it on that railroad companies website in a neat orange and white paint scheme. I think it's nice, interesting and important to know the history of the particular railroad model you have. I believe railroad research and modeling go hand in hand together. Picture #1 Is the USA trains NW-2 Rio Grande Picture #2 Deleted by EMD trainman
Are you new to G scale and want to get started outside and don't know how or where to start? There are actual step by step instructions on how to prepare your site, installing track on your site, what buildings you should pick for your climate and how to protect the equipment you run. It is not a free site but is a great site dedicated just to the G scaler and welll worth the joining fee to get the info you need to get started, you can visit them here and take a tour at www.gardenrailways.com
