Exactamundo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You call it the iceberg scenari. I call it being so short sightedness that one cannot look further down the road. [I do admit though, that I like the analogy of not seeing passed your nose so you do not see the punch that is coming.]
BTW- My previous post to this one is aimed at nobody in particular. Some genius will swoop in, not read this and think I am talking about a certain model RR manufacturer. I am not. This is about those too many companies who jumped ship, essentially blindly leaping into unknown waters. US business, in particular, is not infallible. (Some people have a really silly notion the opposite is true.) Just like the Titanic, (reality check here), which was not unsinkable. Hence the iceberg. Where you must navigate extremely carefully around all of them, not just plunging head long straight into their midst, believing or gambling nothing can possibly go wrong.
I still contend that wisely dividing your production resources, if you are depending on out of country production, is not a bad thing. The world is too volatile to put all your eggs in one basket and depend on a sole source. Their is no advantage in going to China with your production and subjecting yourself to their whims. There are other locations with a labor source that would welcome any type of interest in using or setting up production there no matter if it is only a portion of your business. Ever wonder why Bachmann seems to be the only one dealing in Chinese production that doesn't have issues? It is simply that Bachmann is Chinese owned and as such will be favored over an American Company. There is no level playing field in China when it comes over as to which company gets the favored nod. We would be far better off and have less issues if we invested in some other place, paid a decent wage by the standards of that country, and still end up cost saving on production.
When it comes down to it, I really don't give a rat's weenie why Atlas has decided (to their detriment) to stick with manufacturing in China. What I care about as a model railroader, is what product is best for my needs and desires, and if I can buy it in a timely fashion. Luckily for me, ME fits the bill, although I wish they would have stuck with their original RailCraft flextrack mold specs rather than increase the size of their spikeheads and make them boringly regular on their "new" flextrack. I started using ME products way back when, when there weren't any competitors for code 55 N-scale flextrack...before that lightbulb went on in Peco's and Atlas's corporate brains. IMHO, there still aren't any N-scale turnouts worth buying from any manufacturer, although ME's #6's come close (close, but no cigar). Too bad they don't get the idea to manufacture something other than that single #6. However, I do have opinions as to why manufacturers are leaving the U.S., and it isn't the unions, it isn't bad decisions by corporate management, nor a greedy need to squeeze every red cent out of their products by lowering their quality in some way...it's because the U.S. of A. has the highest corporate taxation rate IN THE WORLD! Not a single industrialized nation charges corporations and other businesses more than the good ol' USA for the privilege of being located within their borders. If another country charges 4% but the U.S. of A. charges 44%, where do ya go? The answer is pretty simple...China, Taiwan, Mexico, India, Ireland...ANYWHERE but here. Is it any wonder the rats are leaving the sinking ship and once re-established, don't come back? You want more major hobby industries to come back the USA? I doubt it's going to happen because of the U.S. government's total idiocy in maintaining their egregious and tyrannical domestic and corporate tax structure. That MUST change before big industry comes back home. Additionally, I, like John (jdcolombo) will pay a premium for premium products, without even blinking my one good eye...especially when they are readily and regularly available. A good case in point is my continuing purchase of Proto87 Store's Tri-Planed Closure Points and etched Closure Point Hinges that I am applying to every turnout I have built over the past three years. It adds approximately $12 bucks to the cost of my hand-laid turnouts, but what a huge difference in both scale appearance and utter reliability. But, it totally negates the cost-savings of making my own turnouts, which for the decades I've made my own has been such a big deal to me. If I could figure out how to mill my own "Tri-Planed Closure Points", I would, but for now, I just buy them from Andy's Proto87 Stores store, with a big smile on my face, even at ten bucks a pop. Cheerio! Bob Gilmore
A great example of is is the automotive industry. Sub-contractors at home and abroad, making parts and assemblies. Go down to the US border in Texas, (Brownsville, Laredo), and watch the trucks flowing in, with cargo bound for various US auto plant destinations. Those places where cars are then final assembled. The jet passenger aircraft industry is the same. So are trucks, construction equipment. Components incoming from all over the world. Yes. The world is volatile. Right now it is a huge mess.
Is there some relevance between "Tri-Planed Closure Points" or "Closure Point Hinges" and flex track delivery schedules - or is the poster just a shill for those products? Likewise, is the name of the "store" that was referenced a paid Trainboard advertiser, or should its name be "bleeped" out of the post?
And let's not forget every regulatory agency from the Feds to the local dog catcher with their hands out for fees, EPA, OSHA, Workmans Comp, all the NIMBYS, the law suits because of an endangered gnat that may be present on land within a half mile of your proposed facility, and the list goes on. Bob
BWAHAHahahahah!!! Oh no! I've been OUTED! YESSSSS....I am a SHILL for tri-planed closure points and etched closure point hinges!!! My SECRET is OUT!!! Are you a Forum Administrator or an officer of the Topic-Drift Police??? Why did you not also ask what relevance GM, Lamborghini, Micro Engineering, Peco, automotive parts, aviation parts, ESU and MRC sound decoders, automotive gaskets, dog-catchers, gnats...ad nauseum have to do with "flex track delivery schedules"??? Or is it you just don't like tri-planed closure points and hinges? Incidentally, it's ATLAS FLEX TRACK DELIVERY SCHEDULES we're topic-drifting about. The other flex track manufacturers seem to have their delivery schedules pretty much in hand as has been previously discussed in this thread several times already. Truth is, there's nothing much we CAN topic-drift about relevant to this subject, since it's been discussed to death in many forums over and over, and none of the thousands of words of verbiage has done anything to answer the question (in plaintive tones) "Whyyy Atlas????" with our lower lip a-quivering, and a tear in our eye, or much less solve the problem. Just google "proto87 stores" to answer your accusation about it being a "store" and should be "bleeped". My fingers are getting tired. I'm pretty much sure that ol' BoxcabE50 there is plenty smart enough to rein us in all by himself if we get too far out of line... Cheerio!!! Bob "The Shill" Gilmore
In this instance, the cited source is a manufacturer which retails their own products. Although it might be a free mention, (as long as such is quite infrequent), it would be OK as they're not competing with our paying advertisers. And as long as someone hasn't posted a slam which would have us receiving communication from a legal representative... At times such references can get into a somewhat gray area. We try to use our best judgement in handling these. We do reserve the right to act as is felt necessary. Or as the owner of this directs us. More information here: http://www.trainboard.com/grapevine/showthread.php?106711-TrainBoard-Policy-on-Posts-About-Retailers
Thanks for the clarification. The nuances of "The Policy" still take some getting used to. Those "gray areas" (and resultant inconsistent policing) of said policy are, at times, a source of consternation.
Sometimes the peg and hole shapes just do not quite mesh. Those we have to take a look at, case by case, and use our best judgement. There's no other reasonable way to travel. If the world was absolutely consistent, we could function the same way. But it just does not quite always work out so well. Sometimes our best just isn't quite good enough, but know that we do try.
For most, it was, Kadan San one day decided that it was going to bump everyone back except for Bachmann. So all these companies that were using the Kadan San factories had to switch to new factories, move their tooling, teach the employees how to operate and build their products. Notice how Bachmann can announce something and within weeks to short months the product is on the shelves at hobby shops? It helps that they own the factory, therefore they can dictate production order.
Is Bachmann taking reservations with cut-off dates so they can try to tailor production quantities to match demand the way Atlas and others are now operating? Or are they making an educated guess and thus are able to announce new products just as the shipping container is about to leave on its way over here? Scheduling an extra production run for an unexpectedly popular item must be much easier when you own the factory.
That's not going to happen because they, and Kato whose track is also available in quantity when you need it, make their track in their own countries, in their own factories, with their own tooling, with their own employees. If they lost it they would really have no one else to blame.
They could blame God. The upcoming, but much delayed 844 and the UP excursion train is a good example of production being set back at Kato because of the earthquake and tsunami. My sources say it's 1.5 to 2 years behind schedule. Cheerio! Bob "The Shill" Gilmore
Here is why. Bachmann Industries (Bachmann Brothers, Inc.) is a Bermuda registered Chinese owned company, globally headquartered in Hong Kong; specialising in model railroading. Founded in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, the home of its North American headquarters, Bachmann is today part of the Kader group, who model products are made at a Chinese Government joint-venture plant in Dongguan, China. Bachmann's brand is the largest seller, in terms of volume, of model trains in the world.[SUP][citation needed][/SUP] Bachmann primarily specializes in inexpensive high quality entry-level train sets sold in the mass market. The turnover for Bachmann model trains for the year ended December 31, 2006 was approximately $46.87 million, a slight increase of 3.36% as compared to 2005.[SUP][ In 2008 Kader bought Sanda Kan. All existing customers were basically shown the door except for those companies that the Kadar group owned. That left Bachmann and all the companies that have since been folded in like Williams and others with their own factory controlled by the parent Kadar. Everybody else ended up scrambling to find a factory that would be able to accommodate them. They develop, produce, and ship their own products. I haven't dug further but they probably own their own shipping containers and container vessels or at least a majority share. Short of a major act of Mother Nature, or a major fire at their factory, there isn't going to be a shortage of their line of products. I am really surprised they did not acquire Model Power and who knows what is going on behind the scenes. Model Power produced quite a line of products from structure to figures. Over the last decade those folks have steadily been buying up most of the European product lines. About the only scale they are not in is Z scale for the moment. [/SUP]
And yet another tidbit from my researches. [TABLE] [TR] [TD="width: 100%, bgcolor: #ffffff, align: center"]Problems in China: The Inside Story[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="width: 100%, bgcolor: #ffffff"]If there is a common theme throughout this newsletter it is that "stuff has been delayed." We are not the only ones. Most model train manufacturers have experienced production delays, and here is why. In January I broke the news on the CanModelTrains forum that another large model train factory in China had shut down, forcing 3000 people out of work. Whatever your beliefs may be about globalization, nobody wants to hear that 3000 people lost their jobs just before a big family holiday. This was just the latest event in the ongoing saga of manufacturing model trains in China. A couple of years ago, Sanda Kan was purchased by Kader Holdings (the Chinese company that owns Bachmann Trains). Sanda Kan was the largest supplier of model trains in the world, and most of the trains made by North American and European manufacturers came out of Sanda Kan's many factories in Guangdong province, China. After initially telling their clients that nothing would change, Kader decided to dump the vast majority of their customers. Suddenly, about 50 model train companies around the world had no factory to produce their models. As you can expect, a form of panic ensued as everyone was scrambling to find a supplier. Our industry is what you could call "cash poor." We manufacturers make money, and then invest it in new tooling. That means that for all but the biggest manufacturers, a delay in production can cause serious cash flow problems as we don't have piles of cash lying around. The result of Sanda Kan booting out their customers is that the existing model train factories found themselves with an onslaught of new clients desperate to get their models back into production. These clients also needed to start new projects to ensure that they don't run out of cash in the long term. No model train factory was, or is, anywhere near the size of Sanda Kan. The demand outstripped the supply - by a huge margin. The industry is still recovering from the eviction of Sanda Kan's clients. The January closure of one of the largest remaining suppliers in the industry will only add to our collective problems. This closure was caused in large part by the fact that model railroad price increases (averaging 10%-25%) have not kept pace with cost increases in China, and it is often difficult for the Chinese suppliers to stay in business while meeting the demanded price point from their major North American clients. Our industry is currently tied to Chinese production, as southern China has developed the special skill set required to produce model trains. Bringing the manufacturing back to North America would cost even more due to very high start up costs and higher overhead, and there are no reliable model train factories set up yet in places like India. So I think we're looking at tough times ahead in our industry: more delays and even larger price increases. Rapido has largely been insulated against these major price increases. But, as you can see from this newsletter, we have not been insulated from the major production delays in China. Rest assured that we are not taking these challenges lying down. We are working on a plan to significantly speed up our production in 2013, and I will be able to tell you more about these ventures later this year. Stay tuned. written by Jason Shron, President, Rapido Trains Inc. - February 29, 2012 [/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE]
At the manufacturer's breakfast at the Roanoke convention this morning, Paul indicated that the molds for the flex track have been repaired and production should be going again. They are still looking for the switches that so far have not showed up in the last few container loads from China. Sent from my DROID4 using Tapatalk 2
As they say, if you dance with the devil, you may get burned. These problems with manufacturing in China date back to the late 1980's so none of this should have surprised anyone. I guess the train manufacturers did not do enough due diligence before off-shoring the manufacture. Perhaps they will do a better job of investigations the next go round. I am sorry, but I dispute the allegations that things can not be manufactured in the US at similar price points to China. The real problem is the out of date manufacturing model that is in use that relies on many manual processes. Using current CAD/CAM manufacturing approaches, the costs of manufacturing drop like a rock over what they would have been 10 years ago. What you see with the Shapeways and 3D printing is just the tip of the iceberg of what can be done today. The manufacturing model of a sea of hand crank Bridgeport milling machines died in the 1980's, yet that is where so many people seem to still live...... I know of several American manufacturers that are beating Chinese manufacturers at every turn. This is what happens when the manufacturing model is just copy and improve rather than innovation.
It's been rough, after standardizing on Atlas C55. Bought some on the evil bay, which turned out to be a good deal for me. Bought fresh turnouts here on TB from other members, but now will need some more. Counting the days.
