I know that Kato has made alot of bad mistakes and stupid decisions lately, however there are still GOOD Kato products. I love those old, but nice looking and okay runnin GP35s in N scale, and the SD45, wow!! It is one of the best locos in my small (but about to grow alot over the next year) fleet of locos. I also recently aquired a 6 pack of Kato smooth side passenger cars. They are great! I have never had cars the run so smooth, and to a certain extent they are very protopycal! Come on and post something about a GOOD Kato product! Dane N. ------------------ TAMR2860-AKA BC Rail King TAMR2860@hotmail.com
I repowered a Kato non flywheel NP RS11 with the RS2 mechanism the other day. Very little mods needed, and she runs like a dream. DCC with a Digitrax dn146a. The only drawback is I have a spare RS11 mechanism and RS2 undec shell in my junk box. I allways liked Kato, but I like just about any of the flywheel loco's. ------------------ Robert Ray The NP & UP N-Scale Railroad
I agree that KATO makes good products. You can almost never go wrong buying one. I have 10-15 of their diesels both early and late models. But my real love is STEAM. Look at the CON-COR/KATO Hudsons (4-6-4). They sold for less $50.00 twenty years ago, and now usually go for at least $80.00 to $100.00 now, if you can find one! I have 6 of them and they all run great. I have 8 of the KATO Mikados(2-8-2) and they run like watches. Yes KATO makes very good engines, but I sure wish they would STOP this short run bull----! Lots of people I know weren't able to get engines because of short runs. Now if we can just get a Pacific(4-6-2)or a Berkshire(2-8-4) or a MALLET(4-8-8-4,2-6-6-2,or 2-6-6-6) produced. Are you listening KATO? What a Hobby!! MARK ------------------
kato has good engines but the parts service really really sucks!i have been waiting on dash 9 shells for over a month now. every time that my hobby shop calls kato finds another excuse to delay the shipping.the best excuse i heard was that who ever told you (my hobbyshop) we shipped the shells is a liar, and it was the same male voice that we spoke to the week earlier. i wish someone there would get off there duff and ship my parts. but until then my paintbooth is empty and waiting like me. ------------------ bnfan99
The running qualities of Kato products are legendary, all of mine are great. They are let down in detail and paintwork sometimes. One thing I hated was the lack of number boards - Atlas beat them on that! But new ones now have them. The real bummer is the LIMITED RUNS If anyone was just starting in N scale, BNSF say, they could not get C44's! This is a rediculous state of affairs, lots of flak has been thrown at Kato and other manufacturers, but they will not budge. After all the development work has been done, it does not make sense to leave moulds, etc. lying idle. The bottom line is that they want to sell everything immediately, at a high price! This has become so commonplace, that on my website homepage, I have the following statement "please note that none of my products are limited runs, and never will be" ------------------ Alan The perfect combination - BNSF and N Scale! www.ac-models.com http://Andersley.homestead.com http://galleryusarail_tehcaj.homestead.com
Alan, that's why they produce only "limited runs"...not enough for the demand, so they can keep prices high. I'm not saying their products are not worth the price, all I'm saying is they are maximizing ROI. BILL ------------------ ship SOO!
Bill, But when the entire run is sold out almost three months in advance, and there is a waiting list just as long as the original run, would you call staying at that run "maximizing profit?" KATO is the worst in terms of limited runs, they make an excellent product (most of the time) and should produce more. What about people who are joining the hobby (like Alan said) who want that C44 or SD45? Hard to find (eBay is always good, but gets pricey at times). I have been lucky enough to find a GP50 at a store and get a C44 for a decent price. Just my thoughts. ------------------ Corey Lynch VP - Rensselaer Model RR Society NEB&W RR
The problem of "short runs" has been discussed on other boards from time to time. My understanding of the problem is that maximizing return on investment is not the reason for the short runs. After all, Kato's prices are not that much different than Atlas and I can find Atlas locomotives long after they hit the market (Some Kato too- check BLW's website). The truth is that some models are more popular and Kato could produce more of these models and sell the extra production easily at their current prices. The short runs are primarily the result of the limited production capacity devoted to the US market. Kato is a Japanese company with a big Japanese market. They seek to satisfy their "home" market and thus devote their production facilities to this market. Export sales to the US get only a fraction of the production capacity. I know Kato has a US facility (Kato USA) but my understanding is that the production is done in Japan and the US facility is for distribution and other related activities. My beef with Kato is not the short runs but the price and availablity of some of their parts. Anyone know why an undecorated F7 shell is $25.00?
What I find is that I do not run into alot of these problems for 2 reasons. I have 2 first class Hobby Shops dedicated to trains near by, and they always get a good supply of every Kato product, so to date I have not been squeezed by the limited run taticks, I mean there are still about 50 C Liners still to be sold in Vancouver! I ordered a Kato part about 3 weeks ago, I got it 2 weeks, not bad considering it crossed 3 borders enroute. There prices are getting alittle insane, but at least N Scale is coming out cheaper now Dane N. ------------------ TAMR2860-AKA BC Rail King TAMR2860@hotmail.com
Here in England we only have a few stores that specialise in American models. They place orders for, say, a forthcomong Kato diesel, but only get a small proportion of the quantity they ordered! One one occasion, the biggest shop only received ONE model loco in Union Pacific livery! He could have sold lots. This sort of marketing just does not make sense. On another discussion board I have witnessed some extremely hostile comments towards Kato. It can do no good to generate this sort of customer relationship, surely? If they MUST have limited runs, then they must surely make them larger. I feel better for getting that of my chest ------------------ Alan The perfect combination - BNSF and N Scale! www.ac-models.com http://Andersley.homestead.com http://galleryusarail_tehcaj.homestead.com
Kato products run great BUT when you pay 70 to 90 bucks you should get an engine that you don't have to repaint, just add mt's. The dash 9's colors were completely off, and 40-2 letter placement is not even close. i guess my airbrush is going to be busy repainting everything i got except for 4 more 40-2's that i'm still waiting on ROYAL BLUE. havent seen them yet. Oh well Atlas' problems are just the same and sometimes even worse.
Hi Corey, it's hard to figure out the motive for the "short runs". I know what the "official party line" is, as when I've called KATO and spoke with Charlie or Yosi (sp?), that's what they say. But there must be something more, "limited production facilities", it seems, can be easily expanded especially now with China. The quality I've seen coming out of China (on other products) is really good. I sometimes think of Athern's (HO) availability, and wish we had something like that. If you're still looking for C44s, I've got a couple I'm gonna sell. I don't mean any disrespect, but I was disappointed with the fidelity of the bodies. They would be great if they were priced similar to Life Like, but for what they cost, I thought others, such as the U30s, were much better. Just my humble opinion. BILL p.s. as someone else already mentioned, KATO's pricing policy also extends to parts and shells. That's an important point if you triple head units on a bigger size layout, and need parts on a regular basis. Atlas is way ahead, at least at this time! (no, I do not have a financial interest in ATLAS)ha ha ------------------ ship SOO!
Matt, right!...a boycott would be the absolutely wrong thing to do. Besides, they have both done too much good for N scale to be treated that way. Maybe what is needed is more competition? But from where will it come? Maybe one of the "speciality" manufacturers could be convinced to expand. Where would the capital come from? Maybe us! BILL ------------------ ship SOO!
well on the limited run thing,it sucks. i've been searching for cn dash9's and cannot find them. or when i do it is for way too much money, and the reason we all know is,it's out of production. kato and atlas have never gone head to head on anything yet, and probably won't. what we need in n scale is athern or someone like that who isn't afraid to go head to head with the others. and to add a side note I AM STILL WAITING ON TWO DASH 9 SHELLS FROM KATO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!going on week #6.i wonder what excuse will be made this time i call and ask why? i think they need to employ someone full time in the creative excuse department(if they dont allready).if someone else made them i would get them elsewhere ,but they dont.and to any of you ho scale people the rumor is they will be going to limited productions also to help with the market. so it is gonna get really ugly trying to get anything in the hobby really soon. ------------------ bnfan99
What about Atheran? Does anyone know why they have not enetered the N scale scene? And speaking of Atheran what about the HO Genesis series? Are these regular runs or are these limited runs by Atheran. We need a company with plenty of dough and the ambition to take on the competition. Only with real competition will we see the limited run and inflated prices headache disappear. For now, it appears Life Like is our only hope. Where is Obi One when you need him anyways? use the shorts and happy railroading!!
Sorry Dane, I will try to get back on subject. Right now I only own one KATO product that is a BN SD45. It runs great and extremely smooth. I have two more UP SD45 engines in route to me as well. I also have a SD40-2 BN on hold for me at local hobby shop making it my fourth Kato engine. OK more venting The limited run thing does suck rotten eggs. Someone mentioned that for people starting out in the BNSF are really limited due to so many models no longer in production (I think it was Alan). There are several locos for the BNSF that Kato is no longer producing so my only choice is to seek the baren land called the Internet. This is why I am on my SD45 and SD40-2 kick here lately to get them now before they go up much higher. Of course the paradox to this is if I wait too long to buy the recent stuff (atlas SD60's and Kato SD40-2 Snoots) I will be out of luck and be back in the same boat I am in now. I guess I will have to just throw a gob of money at the problem until I can catch up with the current models. [This message has been edited by mtaylor (edited 25 April 2000).]
Just remember, all of you guys on the internet have an advantage. You can shop all over the world to get your products. Heck, I got one BN SD40-2 from germany via an american site. I know it sucks with the limited runs and I think that if Athearn would jump into N scale it would be great. Can you imagine all the modern Amtrak power we would have! Maybe instead of a boycott on atlas or kato, we could all start pestering Athearn to hop over the fence and join our scale, a lot of others are.
While limited runs get my goat also I don't feel a boycott would do anything but hurt us.My method of dealing with Kato has been to only buy half as much as I really want. While I wanted many sd40-2s I only ordered 2, both of which I received. While this won't hurt them atleast it gives me a feeling of satisfaction and thats what is important to me!
I sometimes think the high price of KATO and ATLAS items is in part due to the heavy marketing and promotion costs. It must be expensive for all those glossy back cover ads. So if they can "justify" the high cost of their locos, with the excuse of "limited run", you can keep the natives at bay. Also if they flooded the market with locos etc, the used marketplaces such as eBay would compete with their ability to sell more new units. Maybe it's a sound strategy for them, but it's a sad situation for us, especially new entrants in N scale. CH ------------------ .......MILWAUKEE........ "The Resourceful Road"
Athearn has been rumored to have been getting ready to get into the N market for years. ------------------ Theres no such thing as having to many coal hoppers or GP40-2 when you model Chessie System LONG LIVE THE KITTEN!!! LONG LIVE BIG BLUE!!!
