Raise the layout height and use scenery to break up the curves and the tight radius issue will be masked...as long as it's not too tight for the equipment to be reliable.
If I go without passenger cars the biggest piece or rolling stock may be a 50' boxcar or a 60' box car, I need to add more cars to my fleet though. In the NP and GN roadnames. The layout will be atleast 4.5' tall maybe taller, I need to measure my height.
Here are a couple of pics from my HCD layout in progress (current slowdown due to room painting and furnishing) haven't experience too may limitations.... ~Bruce My minimum radius is 15" (on the upper level trackage), which allows even my most finicky, longest passenger cars to look halfway decent while negotiating the canyon; I've designed the foam scenery to act as natural view blocks where the radius is tightest, so i only really see the long cars on the straights and broad curves when normal viewing...
I can't argue with Bob's (and others') arguments about L-girder benchwork being the most versatile....and it certainly can be lightweight. This particular layout has gone through a number of 'personality' chnages until arriving in it's current guise (the guise in which it will remain). It is the test and display layout for the hobby-office room...and it will stay that way until I decide to move it to the garage and replace it with another... Here is the thread documenting the build from it's inception.... http://www.trainboard.com/grapevine...e-quot-Santa-Fe-quot-room&highlight=arbomambo it's nowhere near approaching COMPLETION...so much has to be done, and I really don't want to shortcut anything, especially the scenery-so progress inches along as I perfect my techniques...also, at long last the "Santa Fe" room itself is in the final stages of
Arbomambo, I keep reading your layout thread. I really like the way it looks, it's very smooth. Well, when I mosey on down to chehalis tomorrow(gonna go check out a hobby shop down there, as blitz hobbies has closed for some time) I will also visit home depot and see what sort of stuff I can find there.
My layout is 30" wide so I can't go broader. The best thing about my HCD is...it was free! My layout is set in the early to mid 70s, but I do have some modern equipment and a Athearn Challenger, but I'll mostly stick to a Tidewater Southern RS1 and 50-60 ft cars. I used Unitrack because I already had a lot of it on hand and I want to operate my small collection of Japanese prototype equipment on occasion. I didn't know for sure if the flanges on them would clear Atlas code 55.
Somehow I am reminded of that Bible verse that says, "Forgive them Father, they know not what they do." I would suggest to anyone who is running on minimal curves to either join a Ntrak club or go to a train show and ask if you can run your equipment on their layout. Our club and others that I know of, regularly entertain such requests. In fact, at the two N Scale Weekend Events we attend [Columbus, OH and Bedford, PA] we encourage people to bring something to run. Believe me, once you see your equipment on the broad curves of a three or four foot corner module your HCD will never look the same to you. WP Zephyr, you have a Ntrak club in Crockett, CA which, according to Mapquest is only about an hour away from you. I suggest you contact them. Their website is as follows: http://bayarean-trak.org/home_main.html According to their web site they are open on Wednesdays and Saturdays from 10am-noon and 1-3pm.
On the other hand, there are those who desire their own layout to run on, who may be challenged in terms of space or finances. Any kind of modelling involves degrees of compromise, the operative concept being the amount a particular individual is willing to accept. Having just started with t-trak modules myself, I can only hope that at some point I'll have enough together to actually run. What's always struck me is the creativity some (like arbomambo, above) utilize to make the smaller radius setups look so good.
Here is a link to my photo album of my very first multiple HCD layout http://www.trainboard.com/grapevine/album.php?u=10412 She may not have been the purdiest thang...but it was a learning experience...and we had a blast running trains on it !!
The above is what this hobby is all about. How we all get from point A to point B is up to the individual. There is no correct or proper way to go about it, as long as we are having fun.
Its the way I feel too. Even if a guy lays a simple loop of Unitrack on a 36x80 HCD with nothing else on it...and he has fun running trains rouny-roundy...whos right is it to say its wrong !
The OP's startup question was to get the "pros and cons" of HCD's. I think this thread has done an admirable and enjoyable job of that. It's good to know why some people love 'em and why some people hate 'em and why some people just prefer other methods. Obviously, there ARE cons dealing with HCDs, and cons dealing with other styles of benchwork...as well as pros for both. To just beatify the HCD and not say anything about its limitations (and there are a lot of limitations) is not in the spirit of why this thread was created. I'm all for creative language and get a big kick out of how passionate people are either for or against a subject. Personally, I did not find any "vitriolic hyperbole" (I love those words by the way!) in any of the posts...just opinions, and well-stated ones at that, if somewhat forceful on both sides of the HCD philosophy. Obviously, the HCD answers some questions and solves some problems for a lot of model railroaders, but so do other methods. Ya gotta pick and choose which is best for you or just what you choose to do. IMO there is no "Holy Grail" as far as benchwork techniques, minimum curves, DC vs DCC, 4X8's, Unitrack vs Code 55...or any other contentious subject is concerned. Some things work for some, other things work for others and an intelligent discussion of any subject will involve stating the compromises, as well as pros and cons. Simple. Ya need to get over the "feeling" that because somebody criticizes a product or technique you may like or use, that he's criticizing YOU and stop taking it so blinkin' personally. Although I wouldn't expend hundreds of hours on a layout built within the strictures of the HCD format (or any "tabletop" for that matter), I am certainly aware that there are some very impressive layouts which HAVE been built on HCD's. The point here is that if the builder would have taken the time to build open benchwork, or L-girder benchwork, there are many aspects of making virtually the same layouts that would have been way easier, better looking, just as lightweight, and just as portable (or even more portable)...and would have probably been a different size allowing for better use of space and/or use of the "acreage" for laying track and building scenery. Finally, the old song about "having fun" which somehow is supposed to negate any cons in a thread is a specious argument at best. The OP ASKED for both pros and CONS, which is the intelligent way to find out about something. If all the hobby was about was "having fun" the answer to any question would be "It doesn't matter, just have FUN!!" Specific information was asked for, and specific information (along with opinions on both sides) was given. 'Nuff said. Whatever the OP ends up doing, I hope that it's a fun and creative experience! I'm sure it will be. Cheerio! Bob Gilmore
I don't know if I could agree with the above statement more.... can't see the usefullness in stating, unequivocably, that there is an absolute 'right' and 'wrong' way....the HCD layout became my option because, 1) I had a door. 2) I had very limited room.... as you can see by my build thread, the whole concept changed a few times and the layout still isn't finished! Given the way the Santa Fe/ Turquoise room has become furnished and decorated, I could have actually done an L-shaped layout, built on L-girder benchwork modules. But, as it has turned out, this one is doing exactly what I want it to do... NEXT time, though...and there will be a next time....I definately want to affix my roadbed to a plywood surface, especially if the layout is a modular-mobile one. Affixing the roadbed directly to foam is not an issue for this layout, given that it remains in a climate and humidity controlled room. As far as radius questions and limitations go...hey, one has to work within a given space. Yes, I want 30 inch minimum radius curves...and, no, I can't have them given my space limitations. Bruce
How having fun can be incorrect, illogical, or less than genuine is interesting. Having fun has everything to do with the OP's choice of layout style chosen, be it HCD or other. Would George have been better off, having chosen a different route, and then found in it no pleasure? Perhaps thereafter even leaving the hobby? Seem's close to being a beyond hint here some contributors are less than...? We all know the old sayng about opinions, and such pros and cons as we have seen offered are no more than opinions. So is the totally harmless suggestion to just have fun, as the primary focus. We're in this escape what can be the boring work and drudgery of daily life. Not to recreate it in miniature.
I think I'll give the HCD a go, payday is friday so I'll out and about down towards chehalis. Thanks for the input guys, Once I wear out the HCD I'd like to give the layouts that require a bit more carpentry a go. so give it a year or two or three, I may be back with questions about those.
