How does Conductor know that a RR Crossing is approaching?

pickle Jun 2, 2009

  1. pickle

    pickle New Member

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    Please help! A lady from my work at home board ask a really random question which has sparked much discussion. Well curiosity has gotten the best of me & I hope that someone can provide the answer.

    We know that conductors blow the train whistle before approaching a railroad crossing, and that rules vary by area as to how far from the crossing to start & how long to blow & how may blows, etc.. However, what we don't know is the following:

    1) How does the conductor know when it's time to blow the whistle & that there is an upcoming crossing?

    2) How do they know the various rules for each town/state that they're approaching?

    Of course, we realize that with modern technology that most is probably handles by computer, but it would be interesting to know of pre-computer procedures as well.

    Thank you in advance for your prompt responses!
     
  2. bigford

    bigford TrainBoard Member

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    conductors collect the money or tickets, engineers drive the trains
    as far as crossings go I'm sure there are sensors in the track probably
    a mile away from the crossing
     
  3. pickle

    pickle New Member

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    Thanks for the "correction" bigford. It should have been quite clear from my initial post that I am totally a novice when it comes to trains, positions, terminology, etc..

    I wish that you were as definitive in your answer as you were to the correction. Hopefully someone else will be kind enough to share & will excuse my faux paus.

    Thanks again!
     
  4. MP333

    MP333 TrainBoard Supporter

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    Hi Pickle,

    Typically there is a small sign on the tracks that indicates an approaching crossing. The sign can be a "W" or an "X" or other variations depending on the railroad. I'm not sure about the exact requirements of how to blast the horn, but I'm sure it is governed by rules set by the railroad and/or the feds.
     
  5. Flash Blackman

    Flash Blackman TrainBoard Member

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    What is indeed unsaid is that the engineer drives the train and blows the horn/whistle as the engineer looks out the front and can see the crossing as the train approaches. Also, there are signs along the right-of-way that give the engineer warning of the approach. The engineer has run this route dozens of times, so he/she know where the crossings are anyway. Conductors do not blow the horn/whistle as they cannot see out of the front of the passenger train and do not know if they are at a crossing or not.

    If it is a freight train, the conductor is in the cab with the engineer and he can remind the engineer if the engineer forgets to sound a warning.

    The rules for different towns and states are all the same as the rules are specified by the federal government... the FRA (Federal Railroad Authority). There are some "quiet" crossings that have special equipment for vehicular traffic, but that is not common...yet.

    Hope this helps.

    Welcome to TrainBoard. It is certainly a reasonable question if you are new to all this.
     
  6. BoxcabE50

    BoxcabE50 HOn30 & N Scales Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    Railroad operations are governed by the (FRA) Federal Railroad Administration.

    Railroads can come to an agreement with locals about establishing so-called "quiet" zones. These areas should be noted for train crews in their current Employee Timetables, or via a bulletin, etc.

    There are signs placed along the rights of way which indicate to the engineer a crossing is coming, and it's time to start sounding the horn.

    Boxcab E50
     
  7. fireball_magee

    fireball_magee TrainBoard Member

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    Hi all. There is no computer program to blow the horn at crossings that is the engineers job. On a freight with the wide cabs there is a button for the conductor to blow the horn. Now if I forget or whatever he can and should blow it. The FRA will fine both men in the cab for not blowing it correctly.Passenger engineer is on his own.

    Now the rules are handed down by the FRA and they do enforce them. I had a road foreman that would time you and nail you if you were off by one second. So you just had to get a routine down for the crossings.I would blow for a few seconds wait for five bell ringsblow 5 rings etc till I got to the crossing.It usually worked out well. As to when to blow trains travelling 45 mph and above were to blow at the whistle board. These are located based on speed of the line.Slower lines the board is closer to the crossing.No less than 15 seconds for warning and no more than 30 seconds.Its real fun to run let me tell you lol.

    Engineers have to be qualified for the lines they run on. Conductors should be as well to help an engineer.But I have been out on lines I was not qualified for as a conductor because the TM said " Your engineer will help you" Yeah he was about as qualified as I was lol. We had a great trip though so it worked out in the end.But it pays to know the tracks and all the other little info,like where can we park this thing without blocking a grade crossing and still get to a fast food place.Where are the good places to eat within walking distance, and of course my favorite. Where is the spots where they ladies lay out in the summer! In Longmont Co there was a rec center that had a pool. Thank goodness for Restricted Speed!!

    Hope this helps!
     
  8. BoxcabE50

    BoxcabE50 HOn30 & N Scales Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    I should expand slightly on my previous message. What the FRA governs is RR safety issues. Which is what I presumed you were seeking.

    Boxcab E50
     
  9. Leo Bicknell

    Leo Bicknell TrainBoard Member

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    I'll also add based on my own experience that it varies a lot engineer to engineer. I see some go through down and do two quick cycles of the crossing pattern (long long short long) which I suspect is the minimum. Others, well, man, they seem to do long long short long------------reachingouttoforever. Then repeat, then repeat, then repeat. It's like the horn is going off all the way from one end of town to the other.
     
  10. Charlie

    Charlie TrainBoard Member

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    The whistle posts are normally located 1/4 mile before the crossing. On some of the newer locos there is a switch or foot button that is programmed to automatically sound the long, long,short, long (international Morse Code for "Q")for the crossing. However it doesnt have a protracted last "long" blast required by rule. The same whistle signal is also used when entering "Form B" territory(track work)when authorized to do so. It is also used to warn persons on or near the tracks. A series of short blast is also used to
    warn persons or animals or when an emergency exists.
    It behooves an engineer to be both judicious and cautious in his use of the whistle. Should an incident occur, the first thing that is checked is the "black box" event recorder. That device records the time of every event that happens on the locomotive, such as throttle changes, usage of automatic and independent and dynamic brakes,whistle and bell usage and their durations and a whole slough of other things! If you have an "incident", Lord help you if your story and the tape doesn't jibe with what happened. When we had the suicide step in front of our train, there was no time to whistle, the hogger spiked the emergency as a natural reaction. I was also reaching for the "guzzler" but the hogger beat me to it! We did have the bell sounding for the passenger platform,as per rule, but the suicide occured well west of the platform,and we were at authorized track speed.Our story and the tape agreed so there was no hearing or investigation. The suicide(female)also had a history of attempted suicide.
    My point is, blow the whistle,sound the bell. If you are in a quiet zone, whistle and bell
    if you even suspect someone,something is too close to the tracks. It's better that you stand an investigation for violation of the railroad rules than stand trial for homocide for being derelict in your duties. You get time off as punishment for breaking RR rules, you get prison for homocide. Your choice!

    Charlie
    retired BNSF engineer.
     
  11. pickle

    pickle New Member

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    Thanks you!

    I don't see a button to thank individuals for each post, so I would like to thank all of you who have taken the time to share information!

    Also, thanks for making me feel welcome to the board.
     
  12. BoxcabE50

    BoxcabE50 HOn30 & N Scales Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    I would believe some of those engineers are just making sure, as much as possible, that nothing bad happens. Perhaps from a past experience. I certainly can't blame them for being cautious.

    It used to be law in the State were I was raised, that both bell and horn/whistle had to be operated until the crossing was fully occupied by the loco/engine. I have seen many a time when the warning ceased before a crossing was even entered. Which worries me.

    Boxcab E50
     
  13. Leo Bicknell

    Leo Bicknell TrainBoard Member

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    The difference here, although I haven't paid a lot of attention, may be NS trains compared to BNSF run-throughs (which are about half the trains).

    It seems to me some folks blow until the gates are fully down, then stop. Others blow until the train is occupying the crossing. May be corporate differences.
     
  14. bigford

    bigford TrainBoard Member

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    my job is right next to the LIRR freight/ passenger line
    while walking the dog down the tracks about a 1/4 mile from the crossing.
    there is a sensor looking thing buried in between the track with
    a black box off to the side of the track, i figured that was hooked to the
    crossing
     
  15. fireball_magee

    fireball_magee TrainBoard Member

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    In regards to how long it must be blown. FRA says until you occupy the crossing. Now some FRA guys may let it slide that "Well the gates are down"But a lot have warned us they want it blown through the crossing as in all the way through.Some older engineers are like Missouri mules and refuse to change their habits

    They also will put on orange vests and pop up along the tracks waiting for you to give the roadway worker warning. If you dont its a failure and a fine so we blow for anything in an orange vest lol. Scared the bejezzus out of some of them in Boulder. They were hiding behind a tree waiting to pop out. Problem is they were facing south,which was the direction I was going, and with only light dynamics they never heard me coming till I was almost on top of them and then WHOOOOOO WHOO! Oh what a sight!I thought the one guy was going to throw his clipboard at us lol.

    Not in regards to whistle regs but FRA identification: When a FRA man gets on your train he has to show his ID. I watched an old head conductor toss an fra man cause he didnt have his ID on him.Poor guy climbed down off our motor and went to his car to get it.Too bad we got told to get out of town lol By the time he came back fred was all he could see.Gotta love the old heads they are good for a laugh.
     
  16. Flash Blackman

    Flash Blackman TrainBoard Member

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    So very true. Look both ways (and listen) when crossing the railroad tracks.

    This is a pretty good thread. :thumbs_up: I'm going to check my layout requirements for grade crossings. :D
     
  17. SteveM76

    SteveM76 TrainBoard Member

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    God forbid it if that ever happens!!! The companies already hate engineers!
     
  18. bnsf_mp_30

    bnsf_mp_30 TrainBoard Member

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    I ride METRA over the BNSF daily and I just noticed that they have installed "QZ" or "Q" signs with the "W" signs for quiet zones in the western 'burbs of Chicago. Wasn't paying much attention to the details...

    However, QZs go out the door if there is a crossing gate malfunction - then the engineers blow the crossing but also lay on the horn (at their discretion?)
     
  19. Ironhorseman

    Ironhorseman April, 2018 Staff Member In Memoriam

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    I was taught to make a small brake application as I approach a crossing, just to be safe. That way, even while sounding the whistle and sounding the bell, if someone does not see or hear for some reason or another I can put the brakes in the 'big hole' and they will set up immediately. It has saved a collision for me one time over the past 20 years. Of course, we were restricted to 10 mph anyway. I don't know how effective this practice would be for higher speeds ... probably just flat spots on the wheels as the train slid through the crossing. :D
     
  20. BOK

    BOK TrainBoard Member

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    In the training I conduct for a series of railroads, the engineer is taught that he must begin ringing the bell, whistling and make sure his headlight and/or ditchlights are on bright to the front atleast 15-20 seconds before occupying the crossing. I also teach that it is best to carry the bell and whistle protection through the crossing just to provide the extra edge of protection. There is no need to reduce the speed of the train through the crossing as vehicular traffic is responsible to stop and avoid colliding with the engine/train not for the train to try to stop for vehicles. The exception would be if the crew was required to stop and flag the crossing before occupying it.

    As was previously and correctly stated the engineer begins his crossing protection at the crossing sign (not the "crossbuck", lights, bells or gates at the crossing itself) or whistle post. The "boxes" along side/between the rails are devices which are actuated by the passage of a train to begin the operation of crossing lights, bells and gates (if the crossing is so equipped) prior to the arrival of the train on the crossing based on the maximum track speed for that location. There also what are known as "crossing re-start" circuits which allow the crossing devices to shut off if the train stops or slows before coming to the crossing to prevent vehicular traffic from being stopped unnecessarily. When the train resumes it's movement/increases speed toward the crossing, the engineer needs to approach the unprotected crossing slowly until the warning devices are operating and the gates if so equipped are in a fully lowed position before the movement occupying the crossing.

    Maybe this provides a bit of clarification/more information.

    Barry
     

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