This Control Panel thing has got me completely worked up to the point where I can't focus on any other part of the layout. Much of this evening has been "playing with" PSP 7 Pro trying to create something that replicates my track plan (specific to the turnouts/points) and that might be feasible and doable. This is what I have come up with: Okay, this is where you guys need to be critical - forget pathetic sensitivities and play "hard ball" with this. My reasoning for what is seen then: - the row of BLACK circles represent the Toggle Switches (DPDT) - the GREEN "M" depicts the "Main Track" direction for the switch - the RED "D" depicts the "Diverging Track (turnout) direction for the switch - the numbers depict the specific "Turnout/Points" and are duplicated on the "track plan" as can be seen - the green "DOTS" on the track plan depict the "LED's" - the "P1/P2" represent the Passenger Lines - the "S" represents the siding - the "F1/F2" represents the Freight Line What I am envisaging is when the "Switch" for "Turnout 1" (for example) is thrown for the "Main", the "GREEN LED/s" on the main will be illuminated/lit and the "GREEN LED" on the "TURNOUT" will be "OFF". When the switch for turnout 1 is thrown for the diverging track (turnout) the "GREEN LED" in the turnout will be lit and the "GREEN LED" past the turnout on the "MAIN" will be "OFF". It would be better if that LED could go to "RED" As said, be critical, play hard ball, to hell with sensitivities and so forth - tell me if this looks okay and if NOT what the problem/s are with it. If there is a better (easier) way to incorporate the LED's then say so, perhaps the double colored variety in red and green might work better, I don't know which is why I am asking. Don't know if this is relevant or not but the size of the panel is 11" X 6.5" and does not incorporate the other 5 turnouts. I am going to need another panel for those and think I can put them all on the one panel, hopefully. Now, on the "off chance" that this will work and there is nothing wrong with the theory, I will still need to figure out how to wire it all up - and that my friends for me, is going to be a nightmare Anyway, hope this makes sense so balls in your court .........
First, you can cut the number of toggles in half! Since each of these are a crossover, you always want the two throw at the same time. All you need is one toggle to activate the motors for each pair. That also means you can more than halve the number of LEDs. When the crossover is selected, you only need one LED on its track symbol. Also, no need for LEDs on the entry leg to any switch, since it is always available (e.g. the upper left LED). Also, red/green LEDs are easy to use. Keep your toggles in some semblance of physical order to the layout. If not, you will be confused as hell. Typical nomenclature is Closed and Thrown for switches, closed is straight through, thrown is diverging. (Wife says dinner is served, will revisit later)
Rick, Thanks mate ... is this better? To be honest, the other LED's have got me beat as to where they should be but hope I understand what you have said. Also, when you say to use a RED/GREEN LED, I am assuming you mean for the turnouts only, is that right? Mate, I'm sorry to be such a pain in the butt - I am trying to understand all of this.
Yep, looks better. If you don't want your toggles "inside" the layout diagram, you can arrange them in the same left-to-right order you now have, at either top or bottom. But, I really like having mine (which are buttons) inside the diagram. Do not have to think too hard when selecting. I have made all of my LEDs red/green, such that each leg always actively shows whether selected or not. But, up to you. Wiring is straight forward either way. How much depth are you envisioning for the panel box, or do you want it flush with your fascia? That is where the wiring strategy will come into play. Also, what distance will you need from the panel to the switches? You will need to plan on 16 pairs of wire running from here. Maybe use 16 of these from the back, to make it easy for maintenance
Rick, Think I will stick with the switches as shown in the diagram. That, as you said, will reduce the confusion for me and I'll (possibly) know what is where That sounds like what I was aiming for if possible, so yes, that is how I would like to go. I hadn't thought about a box or to have things flush with the fascia to be honest. A box would probably be a lot easier to work with though I would think. Therefore, if I were to go the "box route" then the depth of it doesn't matter that much. However deep it needs to be to hold what it needs to hold. The turnouts/points, as shown in the panel diagram, are along the front edge of the layout. The closest track will be about an inch from and running parallel with the front of the bench work with the remaining 4 tracks running parallel and from left to right/right to left of the layout. In short then, if the "Box was located on the front of the layout then it would be no further than 12" - 18" from the furthest turnout. I am assuming that the "box" could be mounted to the fascia or flush with the fascia beneath the bench work. I like those connectors (or whatever they are) especially as it looks as though there would be no soldering required with them. You said there would be 16 "pairs" of wires running from the panel. Obviously that is 2 pair per switch and that is where it all becomes a blur
Rick, Just a quick question - what are those connectors called and where do you get them? Is this them: https://www.allelectronics.com/item/ter-202/2-position-pcb-terminal-block/1.html
That is a similar item. That can work, or even simple Euro-style terminal block will. Depends on whether you want simple plug in connections, or use screws.
On the "the two pair per toggle", yep, each toggle is controlling 2 motors, and you need a pair of wires to each.
Tony, Building off of Brad's pictures above, these two pics show how you will wire in the panel LEDs. You can see how the LEDs and motors all come off the toggle. The wires to the LEDs come immediately from the toggle, since they are in proximity; the wires for the motors would be brought out of te panel. Note that the middle LED in both diagrams have the legs reversed! That is because it is the crossover leg, so will be the opposite color. As for parts, here are some DigiKey part numbers that provide the necessary items LEDs -- 3 pole #1497-1024-ND; 2 pole #754-1751-ND DPDT Toggle (on-on) # EG2398-ND The block connectors I was suggesting are #609-4215-ND They mate with #609-3819-ND . Thinking more about these, you can get away with only 8, if you double up the leads into the female parts. Or, and thinking more, this is a perfect use of Euro-style terminal blocks. The benefit of the green connectors will be that you don't need to messing around with screws under the layout, but individual connectors. This is if using two-leg bi-color LEDs This is if using three-leg bi-color LEDs
Rick, Well, that looks simple enough (cough cough). Actually, it doesn't look all that hard just a little confusing on first look. One thing I really do need to know though, will I need to insulate any sections of the track/turnouts to do this? I got rid of a reverse loop from the track plan due to having to use insulated rail joiners or similar. With that being said, I made a "mock up panel" to see how it might look:
The mock up looks good. Well, you always need to watch out for reversing sections. And, you need to watch out to make sure your frogs have the correct polarity, too (unless you are using InsulFrog turnouts). Not knowing what the rest of the layout looks like, hard to assess where to break into sections for auto-reversing. Personally, I never do that in a yard -- a yard area should be its own section, on its own breaker. Especially if being used for staging, and taking locos and rolling stock on/off layout. If done that way, none of these would need isolation For test wiring your first, go even simpler! Take a 4"x6" piece of styrene, and don't even worry too much about geometry. Just try to wire 3 LEDs, the toggle and two motors. See how the paper plans, above, translate into wires and components. Make sure you understand the connections needed. Figure out how you want to bring your DC power to each switch. It is all a bit of a jigsaw puzzle, but once you start, you will see how it all goes together.
Rick, First things first - I will be using Peco Insulfrog Turnouts across the layout. Electrofrogs don't like me and I don't like the need to wire them or having to use insulators for them. Tried it once (HO Scale) and couldn't get them to work with any reliability. There are NO reversing sections on the layout what so ever. I intentionally removed the one I did have due to the wiring and segregation of that section. I am doing my best to keep things as simple as possible where the wiring is concerned. Here is a track plan so you can see how it all comes together: What I was thinking, power wise, was use one (or more as needed) 24 post Terminal Blocks. Run the power from the MRC power source to the terminal block then all other wiring from the terminal block to everything that needs power - Switch, Motors, Lights. Doing a test/try out is a definite for me. That way I can sort out any problems OR establish I have translated the wiring diagram correctly BEFORE I go to the real panel. With regards the panel and what I want to use for it, I have ordered 2 of 1/8th" thick 24" X 12" styrene sheets and a quantity of 1/8th" X 1/8th" strips. I intend to make my own "box" with that material with the Panel Top being slanted at about 45 degrees. Basically, I'll start with just the panel top, fit the switches and anything else that is needed for it then add the top, sides and bottom to fit.
Looks good -- no reversing, then no need for any special handling on the turnouts, either. Good plan on the building of the box, same thing I did. A 45 degree slant is huge. For a 6 inch panel face, a 45 degree slope means the bottom is extending out about 4 1/3".
Rick, Thanks mate and the 45 degree was an off the cuff angle. When I build it, I'll do the angle by eye. I know your doing up a shopping list for me but was wondering if you could tell me what LED's to get (the double color variety red/green that you suggested). I am assuming 3mm LED's will be big enough but there seems to be so many different types standard, nano etc etc I don't want to get the wrong ones. I've got the Toggle Switches coming (DPDT variety) so if I can get the LED's I'll be able to do the "Test Panel". Switches:
In my post from this morning, from DigiKey LEDs -- 3 pole #1497-1024-ND; 2 pole #754-1751-ND. Your choice. Also, don't forget the resistors.
Rick, Poo, forgot the resistors when I ordered. I think you said I needed 1000 ohm resistors right? Okay, found your post re the resistors and have ordered: 200 X 1K OHM 1/4 WATT RESISTOR Hope 200 will be enough
Most switches/turnouts are labeled (N)ormal/(R)everse but (C)losed/(O)pen isn't unheard of, either. If it were me, I would only have one LED for each crossover, smack dab in the middle of the crossover's line. That LED is either red or green; green for Normal or red for Reverse. I am also a fan of push buttons versus toggles, but push button On/On DPDT switches would be more expensive, of course.
Jovet, Thanks for the suggestion, appreciate it but I kinda like a few lights so think I'll stick with the 3 light option at the moment. Call me old fashion (or what ever) but I am more comfortable with a toggle switch as they are something that I am used to working with, albeit not all that well when it comes to the wiring.
Rick, The light has gone on re your wiring diagrams, and it does look easy to do. The only thing I might add, for simplicity sake, is to use a 24 Post Terminal Block in between the Power Source and the Toggle Switch etc. That should eliminate a lot of soldering and; therefore, joining of wires to the "main power source wires". Now, I have also re read your post regarding those little "Green Connectors". Can you please explain where they could be used and how they will make things easier? Basically, where they would fit into the over all scheme of things. To be honest with you, the less I have to contend with the better for me and I DO understand your diagram as it is above.
