NYC Hudsons and 8-Wheel Tenders

Hytec Feb 26, 2001

  1. Hytec

    Hytec TrainBoard Member

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    In another post somebody made the comment that 8-wheel tenders were rare on Hudsons, which usually had P-Class pedestal tenders. I can't argue with that since my experience was limited to south-eastern NY State, but I'd like to offer one small bit of history -

    The Harlem Division operated at least 19 J-2b Hudsons between North White Plains and Chatham, NY, all with those "small" 8-wheel tenders. These were second-hand power transferred from the B&A in the late 30's. They were originally numbered 601-619 by the B&A, but in 1951 the NYC renumbered them 5456-5474 respectively. Sadly, they were all gone by 1956, replaced by those silly little lightning striped RS-3s :rolleyes: OK, I'll agree, RS-3s were cheaper to operate, but not as much fun to watch [​IMG]

    Hank
     
  2. hudsonut1

    hudsonut1 TrainBoard Member

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    Hank
    "Thoroughbreds" by Staufer and other sources,state that most if not all of the J2 Hudsons were equipped with hand me down 12 wheel tenders from Hudsons that had been re-equipped with PT tenders.
    Not all of the Central Hudsons had PT tenders(in fact most did not) and the placement of them has been listed else where.
    The B&A Hudsons (same source) were transfered to the Central between 1947 and 1950 and relettered and renumbered.
    The J2 class consisted of 20 locomotives and all were built for the B&A with smaller drivers (75" that were later changed to 76").
    Ron
     
  3. Hytec

    Hytec TrainBoard Member

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    Ron, Thanks for the reply. I was mistaken about the date of the J-2's transfer from the B&A, I was using memory, not fact. [​IMG] However, all the photos I have show them with 8-wheel tenders. I'm referring to the book, The Coming Of The New York And Harlem Railroad, by Louis V. Grogan (ISBN 0-962120-65-0). That aside, they sure were fun to watch on the Harlem, and "so much bigger" than the all the K's, at least for this teenager. [​IMG]
    Thanks again, Hank
     
  4. hudsonut1

    hudsonut1 TrainBoard Member

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    Hank
    Wouldn't it be great if we could video tape our memories of those Hudsons?
    I'm just real happy to have been able to see them.
    I had a few chances to hear and feel them thunder over the Pere Marquette diamond from the Wayne Jct tower....at night...as well as during the day and they seemed twice as large at night.
    Ron
     
  5. fitz

    fitz TrainBoard Member

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    Hank, welcome to Trainboard! It's always great to find new (to us) NYC fans. I see you have hooked up with one of our most active posters, Ron. And Ron, I would love to be able to video my memories of ALL the NYC action. If you were on the PM diamonds, you probably also saw a few of my third or fourth favorite steam locos, a Van Sweringen Berk. :D
     
  6. Hytec

    Hytec TrainBoard Member

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    Thanks for the welcome fellas - this is a great forum!

    I remember my favorite NYC viewing, listening, and smelling place - did anyone else visit that wonderful "parking lot" about 100' above the east side of the Harmon, NY Engine Terminal? That was a great place for a teenager to spend the entire day. You're right, it's a pity we didn't have video cams back then, that was some action!!

    Harmon didn't even have a turntable, all the steamers were turned on a loop. After being cut off from inbound trains, they left the mains south of the station, went west of the Terminal behind the shops, backed up at least a 3% grade to the north, looped east over the mains, and came back down grade south right under our noses. Then they were serviced and parked, waiting for their next outbound assignment. There were trains arriving, changing engines, and leaving every few minutes .... !

    Then those doggone Lightning Stripes began to appear ...... :(

    Later, Hank
     
  7. fitz

    fitz TrainBoard Member

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    Hank, I envy you living in Harmon where you could witness all of that steam/electric interchange. I was raised in Little Falls on the Mohawk division. Dad worked for the Railway Express and had a pass, so once a year in the early 50's we'd go to New York City to take in a Dodger/Giant series. I wish I owned a camera then. Remember the changes in Harmon before motoring into the Grand Central Cathedral. Long gone. :(
     
  8. fitz

    fitz TrainBoard Member

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    Hank, I forgot, getting back to your original subject--George Elwood's great NYC photo site has pix of the B&A Hudsons with both 8 and 12 wheel tenders, and apparently some got the 12 wheelers before renumbering. Check out: http://gelwood.railfan.net/other/nyc
    Fitz
     
  9. hudsonut1

    hudsonut1 TrainBoard Member

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    Jim
    We are off the subject a bit...but the PM berks come in second only to the Hudsons on my list. I have a builders plate from PM 1221. It was one of my first plates.
    I saw and photographed the 1221 in New Buffalo,Mi in the mid 50's while in the "waiting Line".
    A number of years later the plate came up for sale and I bought it.
    My railfan days started a little late to see them in action as the PM went diesel way too early.I only have a shot of a 2-8-0 and maybe a berk or one of the heavy mikes (the photo is bad and hard to tell what it is!),in use on the PM(C&O)
    I did see one on a work train when there was a derailment near the tower. I have some bad prints of the train but no negs.
    Later
    Ron
     
  10. fitz

    fitz TrainBoard Member

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    Ron, it sounds like you are a prime candidate to head back to Owosso, MI and run the PM 1225 for an hour. I did it last year, and what a great thrill it was. The 1225 has the NYC precision reverse gear controlled by a wheel ILO Johnson Bar. I just used my imagination and saw myself on the NYC for a while. Born too late. :(
     
  11. hudsonut1

    hudsonut1 TrainBoard Member

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    Go ahead..rub it in.....
    Too little time and money to get everything done in one lifetime when one is a railfan...
    Ron
     
  12. watash

    watash Passed away March 7, 2010 TrainBoard Supporter In Memoriam

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    Welcome to the family here at the TrainBoard! I have one pair of the Buckeye 8 wheel tender trucks (HO) left. Are they the correct ones for the tenders you are refering to? I got these back in the early 1940's. I don't even know if anyone makes them anymore. Brass RP-25 wheels all round too. :D
     
  13. hudsonut1

    hudsonut1 TrainBoard Member

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    HUH?
    No Hudsons used Buckeye tender trucks.
    Some of the early Tenshodo HO Hudsons came with Buckeye but they are incorrect.
    Central Hudsons all had Commonwealth (4 wheel on short tenders) or 6 wheel trucks unless replaced by PT tenders.
    Now I know that someone will show up with the ONE Hudson with Buckeye trucks just as someone came up with the ONE Mohawk that had Buckeye!!!!!!(I know that I should NEVER say NEVER when it comes to railroading.)
    Ron [​IMG]
     
  14. Hudson5432

    Hudson5432 TrainBoard Member

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    What Mohawk had buckeye? (Something I missed.....)
    Can I see a photo?
     
  15. hudsonut1

    hudsonut1 TrainBoard Member

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    Ok
    Here it is,you have to go to...http://www.canadasouthern.com/caso/images/nyc-2997a.jpg...
    The engine is 2997.As 2995 and 2998 were test beds for roller bearings perhaps this was just the time for testing anything that came along and 2997 was being tested using the Buckeye 6 wheel trucks.
    Since this is the only NYC loco to have them I figure it wasn't a big smashing hit.Yes the P&LE 2-8-4 A2 had them but I can't find any others.
    Thanks to Terry Link for turning me on to the photo.
    Ron
     
  16. Hudson5432

    Hudson5432 TrainBoard Member

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    Ron,
    Thks for the 2997 link..really interesting!
    Hudson5432
     
  17. fitz

    fitz TrainBoard Member

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    Ron, how did you find that photo? I have been (I thought) through all the caso stuff and that's a new one. You never cease to amaze me in finding these one-of engines.
    Fitz :eek:
     
  18. hudsonut1

    hudsonut1 TrainBoard Member

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    I heard about the engine some time ago but had never seen a picture of it and some where,CASO I guess,it was brought up that this photo was around and Terry provided a link to it.
    Amazing how much stuff is rising to the surface after all these years.
    I love doing research but it takes a big bite out of my modeling time........
    Ron
     

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