Can I run a DCC train on a DC layout? There are so many new engines coming out that are DCC equipt that I would like to own. Polski
From what I understand, you can run a DCC locomotive on DC. I had a friend convert a brass locomotive to DCC which I use to run on other model railroaders layouts and club layouts and I can also run it on my DC layout. I don't do it very often as it really wouldn't show up on the type of layout I have, but I do run it occasionally to keep things lubricated as it spends most of its time in its box. I know that you are facing as many newer locomotives are only available in DCC from what I am seeing. Thankfully I think I have all of the locomotives that I will need but I have seen a few that I wouldn't mind having, but can't see paying for a DCC locomotive when I don't need it. You may look into DCC ready locomotives. These do not have decoders in them ad work fine on DC.
You can run SOME DCC locos on DC......it depends on the decoder. Some decoders are DCC only, some are dual mode and will run on either. The only way to know is to check out the specs for each loco.........It isn't as simple as "this brand can and that brand can't". It can vary from model to model and from run to run as manufacturers go with the "latest and greatest". Like Montanan, I have locos that will run on either, but I've seen DCC locos at the club that just sit there with DC. DC is DC current and DCC is AC (sort of) and the decoder needs to know the difference if it's going to work.
If you see a decoder that says 2 function, that usually means it will run on either. I have 2 Atlas Dash 8's with sound. If I go through the sound shut-down sequence with them they will not run on DC. However if I just take them off the DCC track and put them on a DC layout they will run fine. I guess when Atlas says I shut them down, I better mean it! To run them, I have to go back to the DCC track and go through the start sequence.
Two function refers to the additional (usually lighting) functions of the decoder. Dual-mode is used by some manufacturers to indicate that the decoder and loco circuitry is designed for operation on both DC and DCC. Most DCC decoders that I have used (Digitrax, Lenz, etc) do support operation on DC*, although the DC support can be turned off by programming the decoder so that it won't respond to DC. *although it will take a few volts before the decoder is powered up and able to pass current to the motor, so you will likely need a higher throttle setting than a straight DC loco. Adrian
Most DCC decoders on the market today are "dual mode". Dual Mode means they will run on analog Dc or DCC. This feature can be turned off with DCC programming but the default is turned on. Some of the DCC features may not be available on analog but they will run. You see, the manufacturers would like you to spend money on their products as much as you would like to have them. Martin Myers
If you purchase a used loco with DCC you have to ask if the previous owner turned off the DC anolog function to prevent the loco from running on DC. You will need a DCC system to turn that function back on.
My experience is that any DCC decoder will as mentioned work on a DC system unless programed by the owner to not work where DC power is used. The only advise i would offer is to only use a DC power pack or controller that provides straight DC power. I've tried running decoder equipped engines with a pulse power Troller brand power pack and the DCC engines ran horribly. I tried a old train set power pack with no pulse function and they ran fine.
The Tsunami you buy and install yourself has to be programed to run on DC. Happened to me. Bachmann uses sound decoders from SoundTraxx but run on DC out of the box unless a previous owner disabled the DC function as was said by others. No need to add stupid to a subject line. Rich
I've had Soundtraxx-built decoders that were allegedly dual-mode..and they were...except on DC it took eight volts of straight DC power (measured at the rails) to get it to move. Yanked it out, added to landfill.
I'm an old skool N Scaler with no DCC locomotives. I'm planning to build a new railroad and I'd like to provide for DCC if I choose to adopt it someday. It will be a smallish, one operator railroad. If I adopt DCC, it will always operate alongside my existing DC fleet. If I wish to run both DC and DCC, though not at the same time, how's the best way to wire my railroad? I plan to wire my new railroad using traditional block control and am thinking that a simple DC/DCC master switch serving the entire railroad might serve best. Is a master switch the best approach? If I failed to isolate a DC locomotive and briefly put DCC to it, would something bad happen? I understand that DCC provides AC current, but that the DC locomotive would not be instantly damaged and would emit a buzzing noise letting me know that something wrong was afoot. This is all very confusing to me. Thank you for any advice.
The simple question first: Correct, a DC loco will buzz if put on DCC track, so you will know immediately. No harm will happen if left on for a short time, but you don't want it to stay for long. If you go with a Digitrax system, you can even run DC locos as address 0 You do not need traditional block control for DCC, since the loco is controlled by the command station, not the track (i.e. Loco 4449, go backwards at [a slow] speed; Loco 844, increase forward speed to [...]; Loco 301, increase to notch 6 and sound grade crossing horn). What you do need to think about, primarily, are reversing sections. If, anywhere in the plan, you create a short by looping back on yourself, you need to take special precautions by creating a DCC Auto-Reversing section. If you don't have any, then your DC blocks become superfluous, and your DCC wiring is simple. Most folks who want to run both typically have a simple DPDT master switch that choose the main power onto the buss.
Thank you Rick. I read your post about Digitrax and DC, and was happy to see this. Looking on the Digitrax website, I now see that this is indeed possible with some simple cautions and the acceptance of a low buzzing noise. My layout will have a reverse loop. It will be wired in the traditional DC manner -- four insulated gaps, bridge-rectifier maintaining polarity within the loop as the throttle direction switch is thrown and non-automated. I'm guessing that the special DCC provision is needed because DCC doesn't have a track polarity as DC does. Good information. Thanks again for your help!
DCC has "polarity" also, just like the AC in your home, you could not connect the black wire to the white neutral. But since DCC is a form of AC, it can take a different technique to handle reversing loops. If you have a reverser that works with insulated sections, like the Massoth, normally it will work with DC and DCC... i.e. it is possible to set this up so you can power the layout either way. Greg
I run DC as well but am now buying solely DCC engines w/sound. The new GP40P-2s take about seven volts or so to get settled, the r-t-r stuff by Athearn about a volt less maybe. So the throttle response is off, my r-t-r SD39s and SD40s are already in notch one while the P-2 is still in idle. Is it possible to take them to a DCC programming track, and tune each one in so that they all run evenly back on DC and consist well together? The possibility of switching over to AC is starting to creep in my head but I want to build this upcoming layout DC for the most part.
normally, most DCC decoders "respect" the speed table settings on DC. I'd put a custom speed table in one and see how it acts in DC. Greg
I like this question. I am DC only (no plans for DCC'ing a 5000 ft MRR and 250 locos with sound) and I want to get newer locos. This is a great question. I would like to consider DCC but it's gotta get easier and less expensive. With the way electronics and technology is going hopefully it won't be long.
Here are a couple of Videos of DCC locomotives running on my DC only layout. I believe that the majority of DCC locomotives have dual mode board in them. The first one is a Bchmann Alco Switcher. All of the sounds are pre programmed. On this locomotive, the horn will give the proper signals when starting and the bell will come on at low speeds and turn off as the the speed increases. The next locomotive, an Alco RS-1 from Atlas has LocSound. No horn or bell come on in the DC operation. This last video is another Bachmann, a little 2-6-0 mogul. Again all of the sounds are pre programmed on this one too. The last one is a BLI heavy Mike that I got for $75 bucks from someone I know who needed cash. I like the chunky looks of the locomotive and a Mike is the largest steamer thet I run on my layout. The first DCC locomotive I got was a gift from my son. He knows nothing about DC or DCC, but did know that I like small steam locomotives. This one is a real wimp on the grades. Those passenger cars are just about the limit it could handle. The Bachmann Alco I got is because I am a big fan not only of Alcos, but also the Milwaukee Road. I got the Mike because it was one heck of a deal and I liked the looks of it. I purchased the Atlas RS-1 mainly to run at my model railroad club which is in the basement of the old Northern Pacific depot in Livingston, MT. The club uses a Digitrax DCC system which you can program a DC locomotive to 00 and run it on the layout, but only one DC operator at a time. One thing you will find out running DCC locomotives on DC is that the track has to be extremely clean. The least bit of dirty track will momentarily stall the locomotive.It will also take a lot more voltage to get a DCC loco moving on a DC layout. My DC Atlas Alcos will start creeping at just over one volt, so slow between ties you can time it with a calendar. The DCC locomotives usually need at least 6 volts just to wake them up. I will buy NO MORE DCC LOCOMOTIVES. I have what I need to run at the club and really prefer my old Atlas Alco fleet that run like jewels. Hope this answers your question.
Modern DCC decoders should not be as sensitive to dirty track, but I've really never tested them extensively on DC. And yes you have to get the microprocessor running before the loco can move, and normally the micro needs to see 5 volts or so. But once they are awake, they should run at least as well as a motor running directly from DC, since you typically have BEMF. Do you have a keepalive cap on your decoders? Perhaps that would help DC operation. Greg
