I Think I'm gonna Cry

sumgai Jul 20, 2021

  1. sumgai

    sumgai TrainBoard Member

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    Just read a Dealer's disclaimer on restricted use of one of Marklin's newest Z creations:

    From this:

    "In 1978, a Märklin Z scale locomotive pulling six coaches made its entry into the Guinness Book of World Records by running nonstop for 1,219 hours, and travelling a distance of 720 km (450 mi) before the train stopped due to failure of the motor."

    (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Z_scale)

    To THIS!

    Marklin 88025 Klv 20 Powered Rail Maintenance Vehicle
    VW Bull Rail Car / VW Bus
    for Z scale

    Dealer Disclaimer:

    "This is a new powered rail car. It is equipped with the new "bell-shaped armature" motor - so it is NEITHER a 3-pole nor a 5-pole motor.

    NOTE: This unit cannot run continuously - it must be used only in short spurts. You also must use a Z scale rated power pack. No refunds or exchanges for any misuse outside these parameters."

    Zie Panzer's are now made of Zie Plastic. Sigh.

    frowny.jpg


     
  2. BoxcabE50

    BoxcabE50 HOn30 & N Scales Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    Short spurts? I wonder how they define such usage? Five feet? Ten feet? Less? More? How cautious will potential buyers be, when thinking of making a purchase?
     
  3. bostonjim

    bostonjim TrainBoard Member

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    It sounds deceptive on Marklin's behalf to not make buyer's aware of this. Why would anyone think it could not be run as a usual Marklin product? Caveat Emptor. Jim
     
  4. z.scale.hobo

    z.scale.hobo TrainBoard Member

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    No need to cry, Bob.

    bostonjim - Marklin does mention it in their documentation (link - opens pdf @ maerklin.de website) ... and one specific dealer posts it on his product page (and on his higher priced eBay listing).... But yeah ... It's not in Marklin's main product pages.

    I have that dubious distinction of being the dealer who has posted this on his product page. I never want to oversell something or have it be misleading for people. However, it is not as if I'm going out on a limb here. I did scrape the facts from this one line in the manual ...
    Note: Due to the miniaturization of the vehicle, continuous operation is not recommended.

    I also read such things in the Trainini euro magazine, exact quotes cannot be provided as it was quite some time back when the metal impregnated plastic concept was first being kicked around.

    Wipe the tears - it's still a fantastic release. Comparing it to a larger series locomotive run in 1978 is completely invalid. Sorry.

    This is miniaturization and innovation never seen from Marklin. No comparison. It's a great release. No need to poo-poo it since you cannot run it forever. I have sold several scores of this thing and I very strongly say that 100% of the feedback is that users are very very happy with them.
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2021
  5. Mr. Trainiac

    Mr. Trainiac TrainBoard Member

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    It seems like Marklin is pushing the boundaries of Z scale, but I can definitely see where they made some design concessions. Limited runtime to avoid overheating is one of the more obvious ones, but the roof rack may be another. I suspect that it's to add a bit more weight for adhesion.

    I just watched a video on the model, and I was blown away by how small it was. The VW bus is definitely a smaller vehicle to begin with, even in real life, so Marklin had their work cut for for them to make an operating Z scale version. I wonder why they couldn't make the model diecast though. I suspect it had to do with the tiny tooling. However, a diecast shell could have acted as a kind of heat sink for the motor to prolong runtime and added some more weight too.

    As an HO modeler, the complaints about this Z scale model don't affect me directly, but I can understand the concern. The manufacturer outright telling you to limit the runtime of a new model seems frustrating, and the vagueness of 'short bursts' seems like they don't want to accept responsibility for faulty models, rather blaming users for 'over-running' it. I shouldn't feel afraid to run a model because normal operation can damage it.

    I can draw parallels to the Rapido HO RDC, where they say that pulling a trailer will damage the motors and void the warranty. While RDC's don't normally have trailers on the prototype, a model where the motor is so delicate that any additional weight will damage it just seems like an over-engineered or poor design.

    That being said, the VW would be a cool model to own if you modeled this era of German railroading. Now that they can do it in Z scale, we need to show the HO manufacturers and tell them to step up their MOW game.
     
    CNE1899 likes this.
  6. acptulsa

    acptulsa TrainBoard Member

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    Is that really true? LOL! I hadn't heard that.

    The reason the prototypes didn't normally pull trailer cars is Budd and GM said doing so would void the warranty on the real thing!

    As for the Microbus, well, it's air cooled. Maybe it'd do better if it were liquid cooled. Vanagons do.
     
  7. husafreak

    husafreak TrainBoard Member

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    I'm 100% for Marklin on this one and own it. It is off the charts cute and fun. But even though I didn't know about the limitation when I decided I had to have it I don't find it the kind of car you would want spinning laps all day long, that would look kind of silly, I think. For sure, the roof rack was added for additional weight, and for sure a belt drive will increase friction drag and load the bearings axially which will heat up the small motor. I have my order in for a spare belt when they become available, that was my only big concern, belt life or rather life span. But that is so cool that they made it! And it runs really well! I think the metal impregnated body is quite a nice invention for adding weight without the cost of a cast metal one. The bus is very reasonably priced IMHO.
    So who will be the first to run one until failure? I hope they keep track of the hours. For the price of one tiny motor it might be fun to find out ;)
     
    bostonjim likes this.
  8. z.scale.hobo

    z.scale.hobo TrainBoard Member

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    Husafreak ... Oops. All available spares for 88025 are now in stock as Märklin made them readily available already. Forgot to tell you when they arrived a few weeks ago.
     
  9. husafreak

    husafreak TrainBoard Member

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    Thanks!
     
  10. acptulsa

    acptulsa TrainBoard Member

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    Are you offering him a wee belt? Isn't it a bit early in the day for that?
     
    Pastor John and Kez like this.
  11. husafreak

    husafreak TrainBoard Member

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  12. Pastor John

    Pastor John TrainBoard Member

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    Rather than running one to failure, I was wondering how long it would be until someone taped thermocouples to the motor and graphed temperatures vs. runtime.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-T377A using Tapatalk
     
    bostonjim likes this.
  13. z.scale.hobo

    z.scale.hobo TrainBoard Member

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    Decent idea and I have the equipment. Unfortunately it would tip over the unit or inhibit its ability to run.

    These are really really tiny.

    Maybe thermally sensitive sticker or something where the color changes as temps change.

    FB_IMG_1626980104064_Signature.jpg
     
  14. CSX Robert

    CSX Robert TrainBoard Member

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    Just an FYI - this isn't the first use of metal impregnated plastic to increase weight. Kato has been using it for several years in their well cars (although Kato calls it "steel compound plastic").

    I have to agree that this is nothing to cry over, to get a good running vehicle that small is quite feat.
     
  15. husafreak

    husafreak TrainBoard Member

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    Frank can we get a picture of a bus inside a walnut shell please?
     
    Kurt Moose likes this.
  16. shortpainter

    shortpainter TrainBoard Member

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    I’m curious if it will run without the belt since the belt powers the rear axle only. The front axle is gear powered and it may run okay by itself. I’m not recommending anyone try that but being a tinkerer, I would definitely test that if I had one.
     
  17. kimvellore

    kimvellore TrainBoard Member

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    This is small... Does anyone have pictures of how the insides look like?
     
  18. John Bartolotto

    John Bartolotto TrainBoard Supporter

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  19. acptulsa

    acptulsa TrainBoard Member

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    That's a bigger power plant than the real thing used.

    Bigger rubber band, too.
     
    Kurt Moose likes this.

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