Layout Design Critique

ReardanMetal Jun 22, 2020

  1. BigJake

    BigJake TrainBoard Member

    3,259
    6,174
    70
    Not every one of those yard tracks needs to be for staging cars...

    One of them could be a Repair In Place (RIP) track. This is where cars are held over for minor repairs, like wheel/bearing/truck replacement/repair, brake repair, draft gear repair, etc. This can be a neat scene, with spare wheels and trucks, a flat car or gondola for supplying or removing parts from/to an off-layout supply yard, a cherry-picker, jacks and blocking, etc., not to mention cars awaiting or undergoing repair (a car with one end blocked up and a truck rolled out from under it). You need room along at least one side of the RIP track for repair vehicles and the cherry picker to maneuver. For ideas, there are videos on youtube of actual 1:1 railcar repairs (replacing bearing and wheel, etc.) I think a yard with an engine house would almost certainly have a RIP track.

    Here is a video of a railcar wheel replacement:
     
    sidney, Kurt Moose and ReardanMetal like this.
  2. ReardanMetal

    ReardanMetal TrainBoard Member

    27
    29
    2
    First, I wanna say how much I appreciate the input. I am completely new at this. I have been staring at layouts in books and online and scouring Los Angeles via Google Earth for close to a year to come up with a design. I have probably designed 60 layouts on Anyrail. To get to this point and find out I've designed something respectable enough to get he interest of experienced modelers means something.

    The crossover is actually a double slip. I posted a Google Earth image of the yard that I am modeling (sort of) in a post above and you can almost kinda see the double slip. The brown track that extends to the upper right corner was at first the main line (blue). I think I am going to switch it back to the main because I like the flow aesthetically, imagining the trains coming across the layout diagonally, and it opens up another place to store cars.

    I like what you did to the industry area (brown), and that area is still completely open to modifications. I probably won't finalize that area until after I have the yard track laid and running. I do want to make sure I have a road or roads accessing all of the industries.

    This kind of feedback is awesome. Thanks to everybody. I would like to post my progress. Can somebody tell me the best way to do that here on Trainboard.
     
  3. ReardanMetal

    ReardanMetal TrainBoard Member

    27
    29
    2
    The industry area (brown tracks) is not finalized yet. I need to figure out where the road or roads will be. So ya, function of the lower left brown tracks is still a mystery. It could all change for the brown tracks.
     
  4. BigJake

    BigJake TrainBoard Member

    3,259
    6,174
    70
    RM, I agree that the diagonal progression of the mainline through the layout adds interest, and I think it can work, as long as you don't have industries sitting right on the mainline. Those industries at upper right need a siding(s) to avoid completely fouling the mainline. The top center siding that Sumner added, and a new siding below the diagonal mainline at upper right, could serve those two industries.

    I hadn't closely studied the picture you posted until now. I noticed there appear to be no cars in the yard, only locomotives. This appears to be a large locomotive service facility, not a general purpose yard. That explains the engine service house's relationship to the rest of the yard. No freight cars would pass through the engine house because there are no freight cars in, or destined for, the yard.

    It still makes a good organizational example of a yard, whether for freight cars or locomotives. For example, notice the crossovers between yard tracks. This provides additional flexibility and access to specific locomotives (or freight cars) without having to move others out of the way. In a freight yard, it also allows for an engine to pull a train into the yard, and then get back out of the yard. This is especially important in longer yards with longer trains, to avoid backing up long trains. In a small yard, this latter point is not as meaningful, unless you are trying to mimic long train movements in big yards, with short trains in small yards (a common example of selective compression modelling).

    As an alternative to an engine house, there are prototype examples of covered RIP facilities, and in cold climates, they might be enclosed, not just covered. An enclosed RIP track/facility may be a little less visually interesting than an open one (or maybe it just leaves a little more to the imagination of the viewer.)

    Finally, a bit of terminology: A "crossover" is an arrangement of switches that allow rail traffic to transfer between two parallel tracks. A "crossing" is a place where two tracks cross each other (at various angles), or a road and one or more tracks cross.

    And last of all, enjoy designing and working on YOUR layout. It is ultimately an expression of what YOU want to do, and our opinions should never dissuade you from that.
     
    Sumner likes this.
  5. ReardanMetal

    ReardanMetal TrainBoard Member

    27
    29
    2
    BJ, The terminology has tripped me up more than once, appreciate the clarification. You are exactly right about the yard. I found it hidden deep inside the LA BNSF yard. And about the engine house, I do envision a more complex service area on the green lines. If you have any images or web addresses of service yards/RIP tracks, please do share.

    The industry area is still a new frontier. I have found buildings in the LA and Vernon areas that I want to build and incorporate, but first I need a road map. I'm not sure if that will be narrow alleyways or one big street.

    Thanks BJ
     
  6. Sumner

    Sumner TrainBoard Member

    2,798
    5,841
    63
    [​IMG]

    I added the siding that BJ mentioned and also moved the upper brown siding around to service the yellow loading dock and the brown building to the right.

    I also changed the brown tracks to the left around a little and put an interchange track through that would also give reason for moving cars around that are being moved from one line to the other line.

    However you build it I think you will have have a lot of fun with it,

    Sumner
     
    Uncle peanut butter likes this.
  7. BigJake

    BigJake TrainBoard Member

    3,259
    6,174
    70
    Below is a link to a video showing a wheel replacement on a freight car. It doesn't show any facilities per se, only the equipment and process used for the repair: jacks, a cherry-picker, and labor.

    It also shows removal and replacement of the brake shoes, which I would suspect is a common repair that looks like it could be done with the truck still under the car.

    Notice the modern jacks provide their own spacer collars to use on the ram, in lieu of wooden blocking under the freight car for safety. The jacks also appear to be electrically linked to raise the car evenly on both sides.

    Keep in mind this is a fairly modern yard, with some modern equipment (and some not so modern equipment: notice the simple wooden wedge they put on the rail to chock the other wheel on the truck, after they roll the truck out from under the car).

    I can imagine earlier era crews would assemble timber blocking under the railcar, and use more conventional jacks to lift it, with more blocking added to safely hold the car up while working under it.

    Man, I wish my grandfather was still around to discuss stuff like this...

    I posted the same link in different thread earlier.

     
  8. ReardanMetal

    ReardanMetal TrainBoard Member

    27
    29
    2
    Oh ya, I did watch that. The interesting thing to note, it seemed to me, was that they needed forklift access to the side of the track, and the forklift had to come from somewhere. That will make for some interesting scenery.

    On a personal note, I doubt I'm as old as your grandfather. I might not be as old as you. But I'm here for ya.
     
  9. BigJake

    BigJake TrainBoard Member

    3,259
    6,174
    70
    That track appears to be on the edge of the yard, with lots of room for vehicles and equipment. I've seen lots of those type forklifts and accessories parked outdoors in heavy equipment rental yards along the freeways here in the Dallas/Fort Worth area, so they don't really need a shed for it, but they might have one (especially if in a climate with snow/ice). The jacks could be stored in a work truck, along with other tools and supplies, or in a shed if they have one.

    My grandfather worked his way up from an engineering co-op to VP of Signal Engineering with the Texas & Pacific, from the late '20s to the early '40s. He was a font of knowledge in railroading and many other subjects. He died while I was still in college in '85, and now I'm retired early, voluntarily, at age 57) after a career as an Electrical Engineer. Too bad I wasn't interested in model railroading at the time. I have so many questions that begin with "How did they..."
     
  10. ppuinn

    ppuinn Staff Member

    2,377
    1,444
    55
    Like Sumner, I'll offer a For-What-It's-Worth idea for your consideration:

    I noticed that the brown tracks looked a little like the classic Inglenook Switching Puzzle (Lead on one end of the puzzle is long enough to hold a loco and max 3 cars. At the other end of the puzzle, the Lead (Main) can hold 5 cars, and 2 industry tracks can hold Max 3 cars each. Start with 8 cars on the main. Randomly assign 3 cars to the second 3-car spur--to be placed on that track in a specific order--and assign the remaining 5 cars to be placed on the Main--also in a specific order. The goal is to reposition all cars efficiently, but the short lead forces operators to plan ahead very carefully.)

    I went to Google Maps to see what industries are currently near your 1970s era loco shed, and discovered there is a much larger engine shop to the west (right side of your plan). Was the larger engine shop also present in the 70s? If so, you could shift the smaller loco shed to the left of the plan and model an Inglenook puzzle with the 3 tracks that go into the larger shop...and instead of positioning 8 cars in industries, you would be placing 8 locos at 3-5 work stations on the 3 tracks in (and in front of) the larger engine shop to work on motors, electrical, welding, repairs, etc and then take them across the layout to the smaller loco shed to be painted. (To avoid spending an even larger fortune on locos than you spend on switches, you could use unpowered dummies.)

    And with judicious planning, you would still have the 3 brown tracks and a lead to work an Inglenook puzzle using 8 cars within 3 or 4 industries along the brown tracks and a RIP track next to the paint shop/smaller loco shed.

    Just saying...;-P

    Switching a layout with short leads, a short run-around, and/or multiple switchbacks is always challenging, but reducing how many cars (or locos) must be spotted, and blocking the cars/locos for easier spotting before the session begins, make it a lot less crazy-making for the operators.
     
  11. Massey

    Massey TrainBoard Member

    1,984
    6,275
    53
    Since I don't have any ability to draw on this machine, I will just have to describe what I feel would work here. Access to the yard and loco shed is both off different points of the main line, not very efficient, also you would not want to have to rely on moving a loco out of the yard through a shed as the shed could be occupied at any time, or that track would never be occupied which negates the use of a loco shed.

    So if you were to remove the west most switch from the main, and angle the main a bit more to the north (enough to make room for a couple of tracks). Move the switch that gives yard access right up to the switch for the industries, you gain yard space. The track coming off the southern most yard track would then provide access to the shed by the setup it has now and another switch to gain access to the second stall. This would allow a more prototypical operation, a bit smoother flow and larger yard. You could also then add an escape switch between the lower 2 yard tracks. If you leave the yard where it is then it would also be easy to add a run around track to the outside of the main ladder, this would also feed the loco shed.
     
  12. ReardanMetal

    ReardanMetal TrainBoard Member

    27
    29
    2
    Ya know what, I see what you are saying. It is making me think . .. Thank you.
     
    Massey likes this.
  13. Massey

    Massey TrainBoard Member

    1,984
    6,275
    53
    (y)
     
  14. ReardanMetal

    ReardanMetal TrainBoard Member

    27
    29
    2
    I'm I seein' this right so far . ..
    Edit II.JPG
     
  15. Massey

    Massey TrainBoard Member

    1,984
    6,275
    53
    Close... lemme get my drawing program out and see what I can do. Be back in a sec...
     
    ReardanMetal likes this.
  16. ReardanMetal

    ReardanMetal TrainBoard Member

    27
    29
    2
    No rush. You have already bought me a little more real estate for industry and a rip-track. Looking forward to seein' what you are sayin'.
     
  17. Massey

    Massey TrainBoard Member

    1,984
    6,275
    53
    It’s rough sorry but it better expresses my idea.

    AD4EA6CA-9922-449F-BF3E-2454C2CD337D.png
     
  18. ReardanMetal

    ReardanMetal TrainBoard Member

    27
    29
    2
    Got it. I want to explain that my goal is a mix of form and function. I want it to be real enough to not just be stupid (function). But I am also building something with a little artistic form. Eliminating the double entrance to the loco shed from the west has both added space for industry, yard, and and at the same time retained the southwest to northeast flow (form). I really like your ideas. They have improved my situation. This isn't the finished rendering, but I am now really close. Thanks again!
    Edit III.JPG
     
  19. Massey

    Massey TrainBoard Member

    1,984
    6,275
    53
    I still wouldn’t feed the engine shed from the main line... but that’s me...
     
  20. ReardanMetal

    ReardanMetal TrainBoard Member

    27
    29
    2
    I think somebody said they would be interested in seeing the track being laid. No track is fastened in place yet, but I have secured some cork roadbed and installed an offset mechanism for one of the switches that lands over a bench-work rail.

    I previously assembled a couple sections of track that I laid on the roadbed for a visual.

    IMG_20200705_160333904.jpg IMG_20200705_132924772.jpg IMG_20200705_154133967.jpg
     
    Massey and Joe Lovett like this.

Share This Page