Martyn, You have gone out of your way to help me and I appreciate your time. I really like what you have done and I love the Y you integrated into the layout. That will provide much operating fun! You have essentially captured nearly everything I wanted in this track plan. I have been out of town most of the day and all the other posts have some really good ideas too. I am sorry I didn't respond to them all in this post, but I need to spend some time reading them closely to digest all the information. I appreciate all the help from everyone. I hopefully will be able to get this thing going in the next few days. I am going to spend some time working on the track plan as you all suggest and then begin construction. I am not going to over analyze this thing as I am ready to begin and the soon I begin, the sooner I can run trains. That is really what this hobby is all about. I will keep this thread updated in the coming days to show you guys the progress. Thanks again Martyn. You have me on track now!
Gerald, I am using 3rdPlanIt. Aren't you using the same thing. Your stuff took my breath away. You have got to share your fascia secret with me. I haven't figured that out yet the way you did it. Can you explain item 6 one more time for me. I would appreciate that. Your layout is just incredible. Have you started building yet? I am so impressed. Just dang amazing!!
I 'THOUGHT' my stuff was good until I saw Gerald's stuff. I am humbled. This graphics stuff is almost as fun as building the layout itself. His stuff pulled me down a few notches!!!
Hutch, Thanks for the kind words. I really do appreciate them. Re: #6 As you know most of the geometry used in model railroad design is limited to the horizontal plane. Sometimes, however, we desire to build some of our track work on an inclined plane. #6 was a reminder to consider the transition between the horizontal plane and the inclined plane. In Civil Engineering Works we try very hard to make the transition as smooth and easy as possible. The curve we chose to use is a parabola because it has some properties that make it very easy to work with. As an example consider the following: We desire to construct an inclined plane (a grade) up or down from a switchyard that is to be constructed on a level plane. To do this we need to assign some values to the size and shape of our vertical curve (a parabola) one parameter (value) is the slope of the inclined plane. Lets use 2% for this example. Another parameter could be the length of the curve. To make matters even simpler to use, we will choose to measure the length of our vertical curve in the horizontal plane. Lets use 12" in this example. When the solution is applied to model railroad construction, it appears as a calculation of the height of the riser we place under the sub roadbed. Only three will be necessary to construct a nearly perfect parabolic transition curve at the intersection of the horizontal and inclined planes. It gets even easier in that one of the risers will be the same length as all the rest of those we placed under the yard. Lets give that one a name. We can call it THE BVC for the Beginning of the Vertical Curve. With one of our riser lengths already known, the length of only two more need to be computed. The elevation of the intersection of the two planes is known simply as "V". In our case it will be the same as that of the yard. The horizontal position of the "V" is located exactly half way between the BVC and the EVC. The EVC (End of Vertical Curve) can be determined by applying the Grade of the inclined plane. In our case we chose to use 2%. If the length of our vertical curve is 12" and if the location of the "V" is exactly half way between the BVC and The EVC, it follows the distance from the "V to The EVC is 6" in our case. 2% of 6" is 0.12" or about 1/8". Therefore, the height of the EVC is the height of the yard (Lets use an elevation of 10" for lack of a better number) minus the drop (0.12") 10" - 0.12" = 9.88" Now comes the magic! By definition, the midpoint of the vertical curve will pass through a point exactly half way between the "V" and the midpoint of a straight line drawn between the BVC and the EVC. It follows that 10" - (0.12/2) = 9.94" which is the elevation of the midpoint on the straight line drawn between the BVC and the EVC. The elevation of the midpoint on the curve is then (10" + 9.94")/2 = 9.97" We now have enough information to build a near perfect vertical curve having a length of 12" between a horizontal plane and a grade of 2%. The BVC elevation will be 10.00", The MOC elevation will be 9.97" (Middle Of the vertical Curve) and, The EVC elevation will be 9.88" Notice the difference in elevation between the EVC and the MOC is about 3 times greater than the difference between the MOC and the BVC. It's that difference that will allow your train to gradually change attitudes as it begins to climb the hill. In our case we are actually leaving the yard and going down a slight incline, but the change is still very gradual. Try working out several of these little problems with different grades. Be sure to draw a sketch until you are very familiar with the process. With a little practice you can even do these in your head as we used to say before the computer came along. That is what #6 is all about. The computation simply provides a very easy way to check the track plan for clearances before actual construction is attempted. Jerry PS: I really need to get some sleep.
I don't profess to be a layout designer by any means. It is most likely the thing that I struggle with the most in this hobby. I am somewhat embarrassed to show you guys this, but would you mind telling me what you think can be done to improve this mainline arrangement. I haven't really focused on anything except the mainline and the yard layouts. Your thoughts?
Hutch, it looks good but if I were you i'd lose a few yards tracks to add a bit of scenery space. Maybe a few industries to switch too could add to the operatibility of the layout. Just my 2 cents.
I think it looks really good. I would imagine the yard at the lower left is for staging? I think it's a good sport for unhiden staging yard. If you decide to hide it, you could put it below a small switching area above it. Would make for some interresting operations. I would suggest you ultimately but a view block or scenery devider down the middle of the bubble to break up that area. I get the feeling from your plan that you like to run very long trains (thus the size of the yard on the upper right). If I am wrong, consider shortening them and maybe losing one or two tracks to add room for industries.
Stub-ended and connects to mainline only one way... no, I don't think that's an ideal staging yard. The track arrangement will interfere with a backdrop there. That's only as big a yard as I would want. However, it is a little dominating on a single-deck plan in this room size.
Hutch, I recall where you said you were using Autocad to do your drawings. Most of the work you saw in my rail images was produced using plane old Autocad. The fascia board was drawn almost exactly the same way you drew yours. The exceptions probably have to due with the profile of the upper surface of the board and the molding I incorporated along the lower edge. Those are handled using the Cut/Paste options of the “Extrude” command. The molding detail will be machined from laminated blocks in my shop using a router with a custom jig built to do the curves. The drawing of the Molding detail in the graphics was accomplished using a trace command to draw the molding profile along the fascia board edge. Jerry
I will try to work on another version tonight. It looks like there are some problems with this one. That yard is dominating. I think I got carried away.
Chris, I'd say that your current design has high apeal to me. I can see three or four distinct scenes within your layout. THe yard would truly be an excellent foreground for a large urban or industrial scene with mountains possible on both loops and the small yard being a more rural area. I like your plan very much. Like you, running long trains trips my trigger. Get so you like it and put a new blade on you chop saw! Best, Joe Daddy
Hutch: I'm a little concerned about the staging tracks only serving one direction as set up, but I think there are several different solutions that might work for you: 1. Route the main track around the big yard on the backside instead of in front. This will let you put in a right-handed crossover from the stub-ended staging track lead (3rd or back track in the closet) to the mainline (which would be the 2nd or middle track in the closet--the yard lead would be the front or first track). Possible downside...the crossover will be hidden in the closet or, if you put it in front of the closet either before or after where the yard lead breaks off from the main, it might be difficult to disguise that the track comes directly from staging. 2. A second option is to add two tracks of staging that originate in the closet parallel to the staging track lead--and maybe even tying into the track at the back of the closet wall shelf (AKA the staging track lead after it has passed through the closet). These new staging tracks would come down along the left side of the layout (next to the existing staging track lead, but would then connect to the lower left part of the reversing loop mainline where they would circle around toward the center of the room and then go back toward the closet on the mainline. [I thought about suggesting you add the 2 new staging tracks IN the reversing loop and connecting to the main in the closet, but that shortens the run from the yard to staging by at least one train length, and puts the turnouts in the closet. Starting in the closet lets you put the turnout where it is visible during operation and maintenance, and the staging tracks can be easily scenic-ed as a double track that disappears behind a building or under a bridge.) It would be possible to configure the two staging tracks as interchange tracks that are positioned between the mainline on the lower left side of the reversing loop and the stub ended staging lead. 3. You might want to consider 2 additional staging tracks in the lower right hand corner of the layout. These could be 2 ended sidings with one pair of turnouts by the doorway, just before the tracks would disappear as they ran away from the door along the wall. The other pair of turnouts would be visible/reachable about where the back mainline (presently at the back of the shelf on the righthand wall) splits into 2 tracks. Scenery-wise, a 2-track yard could disappear behind a view block of trees, hills, or buildings and become the 2 staging tracks. I don't know your personal preferences about operating, but having these 3 staging areas gives you interesting operations possibilities: The stub ended staging on the lower left could be West staging, the 2 staging tracks added in the closet could be North staging, and the 2 staging tracks added in the lower right could be 1 track of South staging and one of East Staging. You could model an interchange track between the NorthSouthRR and the WestEastRR by the big yard, as part of either reversing loop, or as part of the lower right hand staging area. Having staging at both ends of the layout helps preserve the idea that rail traffic is actually being moved from one location to another instead of running a train out and back in opposite directions through the same scenery to end 2 car lengths away from where it began. If continuous running is preferred, the reversing loops preserve that option. This added staging might also reduce the need for such a big yard, too, if you are concerned about the size of the yard reducing the scenery options for large sweeping turns to show off long consists. Dave H. Modeling the 1970s era Peoria and Pekin Union Railway in N-Scale
Wow that yard has something like 13-14 foot long storage tracks. That's huge! You said long trains, but this is monumental.
Dave, Have I fixed the staging the way you suggested? Have I have entry to the staging yard now from both directions. Your thoughts? I am stil trying to figure out what you were saying in item 3... I am studying the text and the drawing now.
I am ready to take all of that rolling stock I have been accumulating out of the boxes and have them serve a purpose for a change. I could line up the entire state series on one of these yard tracks. Just kidding
