Hello O scale forum, hoping to find some help with my traditional Christmas train. I've owned two Lionel steamers since my uncle and dad got them for me in the mid 80s. This year was the first year in about ten that I had the room to put up the loop of track under the tree. Unfortunately, both the Pennsylvania 6-8-6 and Southern 2-8-2 sound and act like they could really use a lube job. They both create a high pitched squeal from what seems like the side rods despite the small amounts of oil I put on each joint in the linkage. They're fast on the straight but slow to near a crawl in the curves even at WOT. I don't have any schematics or instructions on what still needs cleaned and lubed or how to go about disassembling these monsters (monsters to my N scalers relatively speaking). Either instruction or links to instruction would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
I keep posting this. The most critical lube point is the armature shaft at the brush end. Sewing Machine oil. Steamers (if not can motored), accessible under one side.
Any chance you might have a picture? I don't see anything that resembles an electric motor on the under side of either one, they're either encased in the body or a can motor that I also cannot see. Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
OK, so that's not entirely true now that I look at them, I can see windings for the motor from the underside in the cab. Not sure how to get to let alone identify the brush end Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
I see two screws on the underside near the sides in front of the trailing truck pivot, but I'm not seeing any others that look like they will let the body come off. I did find the manuals on Lionel's site but all they show is where to oil the motor, not which screws hold the thing together. I guess I could just start undoing screws tomorrow and see what happens, can't be that difficult right? Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
Okay. Pulling apart some steamers can be tricky first couple of times. Let's take a 675. There is a screw top of the firebox. Once you start, remove the screws holding the eccentric to #2 driver, remove spacers and main rod. Remove two screws beside front truck pivot. Pull down and forward on cylinders, should come out unless snagged on smoke unit, which you free up by removing pop-in smokebox front. Once off, behind the cylinder area, below the running board, on one side you will see a slot head screw. Remove it. It's at least two inches long. Motor block should fall out.
Now, on other sidewinders, so described due to the crossways armature and gears down one side....usually on one side there is a void you can see the brushplate, brush holders....and between those the armature shaft to lube. To make it easier, just give me the cab number or number plate number. That will tell me.
Is the curve radius too small for the locomotives? If they run fine on straight track, but resist curves, perhaps so? I don't know enough about Lionel to know what is reasonable curvature. 27" Diameter is common, but is pretty sharp as I recall. I might be completely wrong.
The 6-8-6 sounds like a Turbine, and that has a normally mounted motor. The shell comes off with three screws, if I recall. I'll look it up. The motor (if it's a 671/681/2020) has a motor similar to a 2343 F unit. If that's what it is, I'll walk you through teardown. You remove the motor (2 screws), gears the main gear, lube the motor shaft though the hole in the nose extension generally provided. You lube every axle....drivers, lead and trail, tender...and check the pickup rollers, as sometimes a drop on each end takes a squeak away. Not sure on the 2-8-2, as that is NOT postwar. Not too many Mikados in postwar...I have one. Custom built PRR L-1s using a 675 boiler and a turbine chassis. I need the number on the cab. 027 curves are a killer for big engines. Plus.....you load a train down like that, small wires from power supply to track will show a problem, restricting power under load. What power pack do you have? ZW? KW? RW? Little bricks aren't going to do the job on those engines.
You are correct, the Pennsylvania is a turbine, model # 6-8404, road #6200. The Mike is model # 6-8309, road # 4501. The track is 0-27 radii, but these guys ran like clocks on it for years when I was a kid. I use a set of 14ga. feed wires, one on each side of the oval. Transformer is a 4090 115v AC. Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
Okay...these are all Fundimension type products with the 6- in front. The squeaking is probably dry axle bearings, but let me make sure the new turbines come apart like the old ones. 6-4090 pack is like an old 1033, adequate, but only 90 watts, but, since you have modern locos....one has to think at least the Mike is can motored. "die-cast loco body, 8-wheel worm drive, puffing smoke, Magne-Traction, forward-neutral-reverse operation, red keystone on front with gold lettering, operating headlight, lubricator linkage, 6-wheel die-cast trucks on tender, Electronic Mighty Sound of Steam, Electronic whistle, water scoop, backup lights.." So, to pull the body on the turbine, it's been a lot of years.....two screws under the cab, in the corner, up from the bottom. I would say one in the front, under the lead truck, but something keeps saying two, one per side....still probably one. No rods or cylinders to remove, drops down, the nose down to allow the removal of the drawbar hook from the retainer. You usually can run them this way and listen for noises. "Lionel 8309 Southern Railway 2-8-2 Mikado-Type Steam Locomotive and Tender from 1983. This engine headed up the Southern Famous American Railroad Set from that year and was the first Lionel-produced engine with the 2-8-2 wheel arrangement. It features die-cast construction, smoke, sound of steam (a sort of prehistoric Railsounds) and a nice paint scheme" I'd have to see one to know how it comes apart. Usually you can flip the engine over in your lap, roll the wheels with one or two thumbs and listen/observe for noise issues.
I went into the basement and checked. I have a Turbine frame. Two screws right behind #4 driver into shell, one at the very nose. Drop chassis down by the nose, unhook drawbar from step support and you should be good to go. Again, as on the 675, if the smoke unit interferes, you may have to remove the screw behind the smokebox front which pulls out on two pegs down low...straight forward.
If that new turbine has a smoke cam like the old ones on #1 driving axle....it might be dry. Spot of grease might remove any squeak in that area.
Thanks for all your help ScaleCraft, the Turbine runs smooth now, Mike to go. I also think maybe the track is going to need replaced, some sections were incredibly rusty, to the point I couldn't think of what to do beyond 600 grit... Now those spots occasionally cause sparks when the locomotive runs over them. Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
Followed the sanding up with some track cleaner that was in the tote with all the other big train stuff but I'll get some scotchbright pads today while I'm out. Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
Both run well at WOT albeit a bit noisy, when I let off the throttle to more realistic speed, I'm noticing some cogging, I'm guessing that's a motor issue. Probably explains the growl they make too? I know old electrics growl when there is only a little power put to them, but this is at half throttle. I'll keep working at em. Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
One of the hallmarks of old Lionel is noise. Part of it is AC, part of it is 3-pole motors, part is gearing. Once you have oiled and greased, then you look at the brushes and commutator. You can remove the end brush holder on the turbine, clean the commutator with lighter fluid and a q-tip, any spots that won't come off, use a pencil eraser. Clean out the slots with the back side of a dull xacto blade. Clean the brushes with lighter fluid and try it.
Concentrating on the Turbine, it seems the electric growl is the magnetraction, not the motor. The squeal came back, but only at one point in the rotation of the drivers, still trying to pinpoint its origin. Cogging seems to correspond with the plunger pushing up into the smoke unit, thinking that might just have to do with the gross lack of power from the track that still needs work too.
Could be. Did I see what model pack you're using? There are issues with flappers on some smoke units. Sometimes the arm needs to be bent slightly to keep the piston from bottoming out. One of several reasons I remove all my smoke units and hardware. Some early turbines had magnet looseness issues, some needed a washer behind the wheel that dragged on the magnet. Finding axle diameter, cutting a slot in a properly thick flatwasher to just press over the axle can fix that.
