Big Four? Big Four? NYC? As in builders? I assume Big 4 is Alco, Lima, Baldwin and ?? NYC--I assume was the engines were erected in home RR shops?
LEW as usual is right on with the tractive effort of Mohawks. BTW, for him and all railroaders back then, they were "2800's" "2900's" "3000's". The Central had 600 (yes 600) 4-8-2's, of Classes L-1 through L-4, being built from 1916 through 1943. The BIG FOUR was always the C.C.C.&St.L. on the New York Central SYSTEM. The Cleveland, Cincinnatti, Chicago and St. Louis. Then there was the Lake Shore and Michigan Southern, the Mohawk Division, the Hudson, the Boston and Albany, Pittsburgh and Lake Erie, and many more. The RR didn't build the locomotives, most came from ALCO. Whew!
mohawks We called it the NYC proper. That meant from Chicago-New York.You will notice on,gelwood,on the NYC 2950 up, they did not have class lights. There was a location for flags but not for lights.I believe the L-3,4 had to have class lights added when they started running on the B4 etc. At Elkhart the crews or trains were referred to as West end or Toledo for the main line. MC for Michigan Central, Big 4 for the CCC & Stl and for the old 3 I ,Indiana-Illinois-Iowa, Kankakee.
Was the Big 4 basically a division, like a crew district? Otherwise, I'm lost on that. Wow, you guys know a lot about NYC!
mohawks It was a separate R.R.. If you will take your hand thumb on Cleveland, Pinky on Cincinnati and your other 3 fingers pointing southwest towards St. Louis this the area the B4 covered. If you will go to R.R. of Madison County, madisonrails.railfan.net,you can find much information and stories about the B4 in Indiana. LEW
One thing for certain, it was a great railroad. Shame it is a fallen flag. I'll re-emphasize the New York Central SYSTEM, which, as LEW mentioned, was comprised of several railroads. The situation with the class lights is a good example. I think they were deemed unnecessary on the eastern roads because of CTC or some other improvement in signalling. If the same engines that ran in the east were to run on the Big Four, they needed the class lights (correct me here LEW) because they were still operating on train orders. In later steam years, equipment got moved around on the SYSTEM, resulting in Boston and Albany 75 inch drivered Hudsons running on the West Shore, some NY City subs, and even around Albany and Troy, NY. Mohawks were sent out west to the B4. One of the most curious things was the design and building of 7 new Berkshires for the Pittsburgh and Lake Erie when diesels were already taking over. :sad:
mohawks Hemi,When I said spred your hand I am left handed The Berks were used on the Chicago Div. Cincy to Indianapolis until late 55 or early 56. And yes Fitz That was the reason for adding the class lights. LEW
Thanks, LEW. Hemi, the Berks were delivered in 1948 and scrapped in 1956. :sad: Here is a pic of the first one: (Collection of Harold K. Vollrath).
From what I understand the P&LE needed new power after WWII to replace all the WWI era H-9 Mikes. Management for some reason was under the impression that diesels only came as yard switchers or streamlined cab units with insufficient crew visibility. The Alco RS2 would have been the ticket but they were not appreciated yet. NYC management designed a new 2-8-4 to fill that need and ordered 10 of them from Alco in 1947. Alco had to get tenders for them from Lima because they were winding down steam locomotive production. In the mean time P&LE decided they did not want them but the parent company insisted that they get them. They compromised on 7 locomotives. These A-2s were delivered in 1948 and the P&LE had to figure out where to put them. They were too long for the Youngstown turntable and a bridge in McKeesport, Pa. could not accommodate them. They finally replaced them in 1953 with RS3s and put the Berks in storage. In 1955 they were leased to the Big Four where they were underwhelming performers. They did not last long there and were all scrapped by early 1957.
It's curious that the 9400's were under-performers, especially since ALCO did such a great job with the Niagaras only a few years before. Maybe all the senior steam design engineers at ALCO had retired, or found other jobs because of dieselization.....?
By the time they made it to the Big Four they were run down and suffering from lack of maintenance. The P&LE put as little into them as possible because they knew they were not going to last long.
Russ, that makes sense...sadly. Jim, thanks for the photo of 9400. I didn't know anything about the 9400 class. It looks very similar to the 6000's with the oversized boiler, low domes, and high headlight, actually very good looking.
The overfire jets as well are unique to this class of engines, right? I hadn't seen them on any other NYC power before #9400. The entire batch get them?
Those were required to meet the stringent western Pennsylvania smoke laws. They were also refered to as "smoke consumers" (the seven small cylinders along the firebox).
Some D&RGW locos had those, for Salt Lake City had similar air quality laws. The L-105 Challengers come to mind as so-equipped Russ, I thought you were SW US railroad nut--how do you know so much about NE RR's?
Ahh, gee, I don't know. I guess I have an interest in Berkshires. Especially the Boston & Maine ones that ended up on the SP and ATSF during WWII.
