My layout as I plan it - input please

Reptilian Feline Jul 28, 2020

  1. Svein-Martin Holt

    Svein-Martin Holt TrainBoard Member

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    It look like you are using very small radiuses on your curves, like bottom left it looks like the radius is on 7,5 cm, if I use the rulers. Is that correct? The preferred radius to use if your running equipment is "normal size" is 195 or 220 mm radius.
     
  2. Reptilian Feline

    Reptilian Feline TrainBoard Member

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    I know the curves are a bit sharp in places. I hope i can make them less sharp in reality. The software (or my use of it) has some limitations. The bottom left reverse loop is part of the brewery, so all wagons will be short, and the loco will be a steam 0-6-0. I'm hoping that will work, but as I mentioned when I posted it, I'm not that happy about it, and I'm hoping for some suggestions on how to fix it, since there are no Y turnouts in the Märklin system. Maybe I can make a small turntable instead?
     
  3. logging loco

    logging loco TrainBoard Supporter

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    This raises 3 question,
    1. Do you have to turn the train/locomotive around?
    2. Do you have to keep the reverse loop?
    3. Do you have to keep the double slip switch?
    If the answer to all three is no, you could put in a run around track and run the engine in reverse pulling the cars along.
    This was not an uncommon practice on branch lines especially with a small engine like an 0-6-0t
     
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  4. logging loco

    logging loco TrainBoard Supporter

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    20200904_153957.jpg
    Something like this.
     
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  5. logging loco

    logging loco TrainBoard Supporter

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    20200904_154847.jpg
    What is the track elevation between the red X's?
     
  6. logging loco

    logging loco TrainBoard Supporter

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    Tow more questions;
    1. Are you trying to actually recreate a scence from a photo at the brewery area?
    2. Can the position of the brewery be shifted but still stay on that section of layout?
     
  7. Reptilian Feline

    Reptilian Feline TrainBoard Member

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    John (logging loco), my only problem with not turning the loco around at the brewery is that it will be a long way back to the big city in reverse. I just didn't think that might be prototypical. That could be solved by having the train always arrive from the same direction, and then back up into the brewery area from Knacker Sedgemoor. The train will exit left from Cairnton, run the loop down to Knacker Sedgemoor, back up into the brewery and load or unload, and then pull out, returning to Cairton through the scenic route entering from the right.

    The elevation between the red x's are a level 4 cm at the moment. I have nothing higher than 4 cm for now, but I'm thinking that if I can make some nice loops, then one section could run higher. The gradient down to the station is at 3.9% from what the software says. A bit steep, but from what I've read, within tolerance.

    As for the brewery, I would love to find some images that show the tracks and buildings for a small brewery. So far I've drawn a blank. I've seen some pictures of a nice looking model and some nice pictures of very nice old brewery buildings (even downloaded a PDF on the subject), but nothing that really tells me what would be normal at that time in the UK. I need to unload the ingredients, remove waste products, and move barrels. And then the idea of the munitions factory on a small scale withing the brewery, maybe with a new track (compared to the older more weathered ones) and supplies going in, and cases of bullets going out. And some home guards standing watch of course.
     
  8. logging loco

    logging loco TrainBoard Supporter

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    I don't know about the line you are modeling but I have seen old movies and video on youtube showing small British tank engines running in reverse pulling trains. I don't know how common it was.
    Depending how important it is to you and how much energy you want to put into it, you could try contacting the 2mm Association or starting a trainboard thread in a prototype forum asking about it.
    In the US there are many local historical societies that can often have information about past industries. Maybe the UK has something like that.
    I use ebay to look for images also. Sometimes old post cards can be had at a reasonable price or just download the image from the listing..
     
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  9. logging loco

    logging loco TrainBoard Supporter

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    The reason I asked about the elevation here is that I was going to suggest adding two turnouts so you could make an oval. That's a mute point if the tracks are at different elevations.
     
  10. logging loco

    logging loco TrainBoard Supporter

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    it sounds like you have a real clear idea of what you want and have put a good bit of thought into it.
    Have you purchased any locomotives or other rolling stock yet?
     
  11. logging loco

    logging loco TrainBoard Supporter

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    I have some good news and some bad.
    I did some snooping around on the internet. I found some interesting info about the munitions plant and some photos including a photo of the locomotive.
    The bad news is I somehow got locked out of my computer and I can only one finger type on my phone so it would take me forever to find it again.
    I'll see what I can do over the weekend.
     
  12. logging loco

    logging loco TrainBoard Supporter

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    Looks like a locomotive might have Dunster_Barclay_579-1972.jpg survived and there are possibly fairly recent color photos of it.
    A Barclay 0-4-0DM. This looks very similar to locomotive in b&w photo taken at ordinance factory.
     
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  13. Reptilian Feline

    Reptilian Feline TrainBoard Member

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    John, thank you so much for your help. When computers go wonky we are all in a bind.

    There is an LMS society in the UK. LMS is the company that ran the trains in Yorkshire during WW2. It was suggested that I looked at the Settle & Carlyle line (a very popular line in UK model railwaying) and so I have. LMS took over in 1936, but were slow on repainting and so on. I think they had gotten round to it in 1942-45 though.

    Somehow my viking heart feels a kinship to Yorkshire more than any other place in the UK. There is something about the landscape and the houses and the roads I just love.

    So far I have no rolling stock or locos, not even track. I have downloaded som card kits I'm converting to Z scale and the location (changing colour on doors and stuff) and I'm looking for photos I can use on shop fronts for Cairnton, because the ones provided in the kits look too modern and too... well... non real. This is something I am very good at, so it will be fun to build some of them to get a feel for the scale. Finding proper buildings for the brewery is a bit hard, but if I have clear photos and know where to put down the tracks for deliveries and so on, I can kit-bash (digitally) some other factory buildings to match.

    Oh... and the track plan is a very odd looking oval. :)
     
  14. logging loco

    logging loco TrainBoard Supporter

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    Your welcome.
    I'm enjoying reading the history of the munitions plant ROF 37 also called ROF Bridgewater.

    Apparently it had it's own narrow gauge railway also.
    So you are not going to model the munitions plant during WWII?
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2020
  15. Reptilian Feline

    Reptilian Feline TrainBoard Member

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    I'm not sure... I thought a brewery would be nice, but the idea of a proper munitions plant might be more with the era... I need to do some reading :)
     
  16. logging loco

    logging loco TrainBoard Supporter

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    So was the brewery actually built on the same sight or just near by?
    Maybe the brewery can be shifted over towards Knacker Sedgemoore.
     
  17. logging loco

    logging loco TrainBoard Supporter

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    Can you upload an image of this?

    I read that there were two "loops" or something at ROF 37. I wasn't sure if it was referring to a ballon track for turning a train around or to a passing siding.
    English in the UK and English in the US aren't really the same language at times!
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2020
  18. logging loco

    logging loco TrainBoard Supporter

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    Would it be possible up load your track plan with measurements in feet and inches?
    I'm not familiar with xtrackcad. Does the track shown in green represent bridges and trestles?
     
  19. Reptilian Feline

    Reptilian Feline TrainBoard Member

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    I switched to inches.

    The green tracks are those with sharper curves than standard, but not too sharp, or the software won't allow it. Dotted lines are hidden and that is a bit of a hassle in the software, it won't hide partial tracks, so free hand tracks can be split for hiding one part, but template pieces can't. I put a rectangle around the track that will be on the viaduct, so I knew where it was.

    My idea to begin with was that Knacker Sedgemoor, a very small village, would be famous for its local ale brewery (there were a few small ones around, from what I understand, something along the lines of a micro brewery), but that the war effort needed place to make munitions and so part of the brewery would be taken over by the War Department. After doing some reading, that seems unlikely, so I might need to scrap the idea of the brewery and just go with the munitions plant.

    And it turns out that LMS had some diesel shunters at the time, so now I have to find out where to get 0-4-0 wheel base locos that can be dressed into proper housings.

    Z-scale layout inches.gif
     
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  20. logging loco

    logging loco TrainBoard Supporter

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    I would suggest you get a copy of this, hardback or digital it doesn't matter which. If you can't get where you are don't fret. We'll get through it.
    0890242275.jpg
    I haven't opened this book in about 25 years. I cannot find my copy at this time so I'm relying on memory. It may not list Z scale in the charts and tables but you can find that on the web.
    In it the author, John Armstrong talks about minimum radius, grades, clearances, things to avoid that can effect reliable operation. He also goes into "givens and druthers.
    This web page explains it way better than I can. https://www.lkorailroad.com/givens-druthers/
    It is basically two lists, one of things you can't change, with a few exceptions, the other list things you'd like to have or expect from you layout.
    Armstrong also talks about compromise and lets face it, building a model railroad is all about compromise. Some compromises you may not like but will be necessary to build a reliable model railroad. Others will be about what you can or should not include on your layout.
    Notice I did not say can or cannot. Its easy to fall to the temptation to crowd too much track or too many buildings in a given area or over complicate something when a simpler solution will work much better. Remember KISS.
     
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