I still have to put a decoder in my N scale Kato SD90/43MAC, and I'm thinking sound What is the difference between Zimo MX660 and Loksound 58741? I've read somewhere the Zimo offers a better sound.....it is true? Looks like people on this forum are using ESU Loksound decoder way more than Zimo....Is it because the Zimo are hard to come by in the US?
Most voted for ESU from John's comparison there but not sure I would of picked a winner myself. I'm looking for North American loco sound files and thought I've seen where ESU might have an edge on those sound files so I've gone ESU at this point. I'd check out some sound files on maybe both sites, at least I know you can listen to them on ESU's site. The last sound file I listened to on the site vs. in my shop on a speaker I'll install I thought the Internet sounded better than real life. To me listening to it on the YouTube above (recorded in my shop) sounds a little better to me than in the shop in person. ( HERE ) is a link to the same sound file on ESU's site and the start-up hooked me but I don't hear it in the shop as clear as it sounds on their site. Sumner
Consider that N scale embeddable speakers are smaller than those in many over-the-ear headphones, so getting good sound that can be heard well from several feet away from them is a physics problem, not necessarily a sound file problem. JMRI has a "virtual sound decoder" feature that can play locomotive sounds synchronized with the throttle setting for multiple locomotives simultaneously. They can even synchronize a steam locomotive's chuffs (with a lot of work). These sounds can be played on much larger, higher-fidelity speaker(s) near the layout. I think they were working on playing those sounds on your smart phone throttle's speaker. While that phone speaker is not very big, it is much nearer your ears, and could even be played via headphones, if your significant other is not a fan of the 'music' during late night operating sessions.
I have not installed any sound decoders yet, so I cannot speak from direct experience, but, especially if you are installing ESU sound decoders in your locomotives, the ESU programmer is practically required. Locomotives that come from the factory with ESU sound decoders installed are pre-loaded with the appropriate sound files, so you may not need the ESU programmer for them. The ESU programmer uses a proprietary protocol which loads large sound files much more quickly & reliably than over DCC, which JMRI uses. Make sure you have a computer that is compatible with ESU's programming software if you want to use it. If all you want to do is tweak function settings, speed-match locos for consists, change loco addresses, etc. on a factory (and/or professionally) installed decoder, you probably do not need ESU's programmer.
Yep, DecoderPro should do most of what you want if you have the sound file that you want loaded onto the decoder from the place you buy it from. Another option other than loading the sound file is you can download the software (free) that comes with the LokProgrammer and run it on your computer. Make the changes you want using the software and then see the CV values after the changes have been made and use them via DecoderPro to program the decoder with them. I bought the programmer but haven't used it yet. I have some decoders that I had the file loaded onto before they were shipped to me by SBS on here. I've made changes first by figuring out the CV's I wanted to change via the manual. It was confusing and hard but got there. Then I tried to make the same changes directly using DecoderPro alone and the changes I struggled with were really easy. They dealt with setting up function keys to activate additional lighting and changing the lighting intensity without having to change a physical resistor. I'd start by getting the decoder with the sound file already loaded and start with DecoderPro and see if you need more. I ordered one decoder intenionally with no sound file so eventually I'm going to have to use the programmer. Sumner
The ESU Programmer is very handy because it also lets you test drive your settings, both sound and movement. My programming track is about 4' long, and I can drive the locomotive using the programmer so it is an easy way to test both sound and movement.
When I made the video in the post by Sumner, Zimo was far behind ESU in terms of realistic US-prototype sound. I suspect they still are, atlhough I haven't checked their list of sound files recently. But Matt Hermann (no longer with ESU) spent several years recording every diesel that was still running, so ESU's files were made from actual running locomotives, not pieced together from generic sounds. The other problem with Zimo's US-prototype files is that they lacked a playable horn. With the help of Bryan Vianco of Streamlined Backshops, we got Zimo's sound file editor to implement a playable horn for the EMD 567 file, but AFAIK, no other Zimo US-prototype diesel file has this. You get a one-shot timed horn blast and that's it. Finally, Zimo has this weird business model where some files are free, but other files are locked and you need to pay a fee to install them on a decoder. Most of the free files I tried just weren't very good, IMHO. At the time I recorded the video, I was interested in the Zimo alternative because its decoder was less than 10mm wide, while ESU's was 10.6mm. The 10.6mm width created some issues when installing the ESU decoder in first-generation (or even second-generation) hood diesels. But after weighing the pros and cons, ESU was the winner hands down, and these days they have board decoders and a "nano" sound decoder that easily fit nearly anything, including some small-ish switchers. Zimo's overall technology is superb, and at the time I did my test, its motor control was a hair better than ESU's, which already was among the best in the industry. But for US-prototype diesel sound, I think ESU is far superior. Zimo just never put the same effort into the US market that ESU did, and it shows. As far as programming goes, a LokProgrammer is required to install a sound file in an ESU decoder, or to change from one sound file to another (which I suspect no one actually does). The same is true of Zimo, which has its own proprietary programmer. JMRI will do everything else (program lights, volume levels, speed tables, etc.) competently, though not as quickly as a LokProgrammer. If you just want to convert one or two locos to sound, you can have your dealer install the appropriate sound file and use JMRI to tweak the decoder settings to your liking. But if you're going to convert a fleet, you really need to invest in a LokProgrammer or you will get miserable quickly. I don't think there is any real competition to ESU for accurate US-prototype diesel sound, which is why many locomotive manufacturers have adopted ESU as OEM equipment (although Atlas recently released something with a Soundtraxx Tsunami-2 decoder, Broadway Limited has its own proprietary decoder which everyone hates; and Bachmann used a stripped-down version of a Soundtraxx decoder in some of its releases). For steam, I can make a good case that the Soundtraxx Tsunami 2 is superior, but in my quest to simplify my life, I've gone all-ESU, even for steam locos (and as with diesels, Matt recorded some live steamers, so the sound file is actually the prototype sound, not a generic chuff married to a generic whistle). John C.
Besides sound quality, what makes the ESU superior is the amount of control you have over various functions. I recently wired a LokSound 5 Nano into an Athearn F59PHI (I accidentally fried the stock Tsunami sound decoder, which turned out to be a blessing in disguise ). I also installed marker lights and separate alternating ditch lights. Not only did the ESU give full control of those extra AUX lights, but there's a dimming control where you can tweak the brightness to even-out the different LEDs. That just blew me away. Now I'm Loko for LokSound.
While I have a love of Zimo for non-sound installs like in my FVM models that used the 651 6 pin plug or the small wired decoders have absolutely the best movement I have ever seen. I even had several installed into older Atlas locomotives and they move like they are floating on air. So from what I see the Zimo motion control is substantially better than ESU. And both of them are much better Digitrax, NCE, MRC and TCS for non sound. I am perfectly happy with ESU sound, I do have a few with Digitrax sound decoders and they are so far behind ESU it is sad. I also have several Athearn locomotives with the Tsunami sound, and they are a bit behind ESU sound, but still sound good enough. I am not wild about sound because running 6-8 trains at a time gets a little too noisy. So I prefer to run silent mostly and just enjoy running. About the only thing I really care about is smooth movement and RailCom or RailCom+. That said, it does not mean I will also rip out all the older decoders and replace the Digitrax or other decoders in perfectly working locomotives either. But when and if they die, they will be replaced by ESU decoders.
I just got my 1st ZEMO MS500N that I want to install in a FVM GP60. I am not sure this was a good idea. 1st question is which side of the decoder is up? Orange components up or black side. Orange component sides have soldering points for optional lights, etc.
I had to study the decoder manual's pictures to figure out which pin was which function. I then compared that to the "shorting plug" that was plugged in to the loco's socket at factory in my loco. The shorting plug's traces should connect the rails (loco's truck contacts) to the motor leads. Make note of that, compared to which pins on the decoder are for track and motor connections, per the manual. Then decide "which side up" on the decoder will make those connections correctly when plugged into the socket. Note also that when I first plugged my decoder into the socket, the pins were a little long, which pushed the decoder out farther than I wanted. I had to trim the decoder pins' lengths just a little bit, but you may not in your loco. Then it's time for the "smoke test!"
Note, my decoder was only for motor & lights, the speaker connections on your sound decoder are on the end opposite the connector. I have no experience with that.
Just bought an ESU 58741 for a Kato SD70M. Lots of space in the rear for a 9x16 speaker. I will make some pictures.
I use the MX61N Zimo decoder for all my FVM locomotives. In this case all the chips face up is the correct installation. While not a sound decoder, it may be the same for the sound decoders.
Nice thing about a NEM651 (6 pin connectors) is they can be reversed and no damage. If things don't work flip it and try again.
