Need some professional opinions!

mr.dean Oct 28, 2013

  1. mr.dean

    mr.dean TrainBoard Member

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    Hey guys,

    I am an N/HO scale modeller for the most part, so I know nothing about O gauge or O scale equipment. I have a friend in our MRR club that has some older O scale 2 rail equipment (DC powered) that he wants to sell and he has asked me to help him move it along to new owners. He is older and retired and has no room to run these anymore. He says he bought most of this stuff in the 80s. He is now running HO. He just wants to get a fair price and I told him you guys would give me a fair answer! :cool: I would like your opinions as to what its worth (can't find any of what he has on eBay) to get a grip on pricing. Also, if any of you are interested I will be able to say its been listed here first. I can get pics if it helps. He also has one working Troller transistorized Autopulse Momentum 2.5 power pack and one Western and Atlantic bobber style caboose.

    The units he has are either Rivarossi or Atlas. He has one Northern Pacific (appears to be an F-?) and 5 Santa Fe engines. The Santa Fe engines are what appear to be F-?s. One of these is shorter and so is a different F series. Maybe pics will help here so I will take some to put up in a bit. Four of the Santa Fe engines will be sold as an ABBA set, two are powered and two are dummies. They all wear the red war bonnet. I have no boxes except for two and one of those is wrong and I am unsure about the other!

    So, that makes a total of 6 engines, 4 of which are powered. They have been tested and all run out pretty well. A few small items are missing on a couple of them, such as horn sets, and a few may need couplers but nothing is broken that I am aware of except the weights have come loose inside one or two.

    Any help will be greatly appreciated.

    Dean
     
  2. mr.dean

    mr.dean TrainBoard Member

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    OK, got a few pics. Hope these help.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
     
  3. Keith

    Keith TrainBoard Supporter

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    I suspect the NP and boxed ATSF units are F3's, or maybe F7's.
    The 4 loose ATSF units look like they could be Erie Builts. Could you get
    a side shot of these units? Might help ID them better.
    Almost thought C-Liner, but don't think so. Would have to have a
    3 axle rear truck.
    Could not even hazard a guess on pricing though!
    Just my thoughts, from a brief dabble with a locomotive.
    Before giving it to an individual at a train show in Estes Park
    years ago, for parts. Free parts and more, that would have
    run him in excess of $50 or more! After market parts if I recall.
    Wish I could help more.
     
  4. mr.dean

    mr.dean TrainBoard Member

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    Keith,

    Here is a shot of one of the loose F units from the side. Those four units are probably a couple of inches longer than the other two F units. Maybe they are F-9s? Sorry the shot is so dark. Thanks!

    20131028_182545.jpg
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 28, 2013
  5. ScaleCraft

    ScaleCraft TrainBoard Member

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    Okay. Let's take a deep breath.
    Atlas from that era is junk.
    Some folks think it's wonderful, but they don't haul much with it.
    Makes you think a minute as to why he went to Half 0.

    In the early 90's, I got two boxes of those units, both styles.
    Free.
    Gave them to a guy with a BIG 0 scale pike.
    He died in 2012, or late 2011.
    Every one of them was still there, several he had chopped and glued, filled, to make something else, but none were in service.
    Motors were not up to the task, gear trains were lousy.
    Atlas got out of the 0 market.

    Many years later, they re-entered with something good.
    I still have a box of early Atlas/Riv snap track and switches I cannot give away.
    Curvature is suitable for streetcar use.
    I don't recall Atlas doing an NP F unit...and I do NP in 0. I think I'd have remembered that. Lettering looks a tad crooked, like a repaint and decal. Back then, we could call Champ and get those decals (I did some All-Nation units in those decals).
    Memory time...I think Red Caboose re-issued those drives, but modified to hold up a bit better. They are gone now in 0 scale, too, if I recall, so dealing with repowering on plastic frames is going to take some work, and far more money than they are ever worth.

    Now...we didn't have EvilBait 30 years ago.
    Today, advertise them as "rare, out of production" and spend enough time relisting them, you may get a wheelbarrow full of greenbacks, and the problem will shift to someone else's workbench.

    Just an opinion, mind you, based on experience.

    Dave
     
  6. bremner

    bremner Staff Member

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    the four locos that you are calling F Units are really a Fairbanks Morse C-Liner. A pair of dummies just sold on Fee-Bay for $32.00

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/RIVAROSSI-O...ANKS-MORSE-C-LINER-DIESEL-LOCOS-/261276049119

    As for the Atlas F's, I remember adds in MR in the late 1980's advertizing a re-power kit to improve performance

    the ATSF unit in the box and the DP unit are both F7A's

    ALL F UNITS OTHER THAN FT'S HAD THE SAME WHEELBASE AND LENGTH
     
  7. ScaleCraft

    ScaleCraft TrainBoard Member

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    http://nwsl.com/uploads/Rivarossi_shark_diesel.pdf This is just the motor (like I said, the originals were not up to the task).
    Finding repower kits that were advertised 25 years ago may be interesting.
    I still have in a box some axles with gears and some wheels. Interesting...the wheels had plastic insulators...and tended to come off the metal axles.
    If I have a box of them, I'd be happy to see them go at ten bucks apiece.....but, like I said and you showed, EvilBait can do wonders for selling stuff with no commercial value.
     
  8. ScaleCraft

    ScaleCraft TrainBoard Member

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    PDP2201K-Repower Kit, Red Caboose GP9 with P&D brass Blomberg trucks...$200.00​
    PDP2200K-Repower Kit, Red Caboose GP9 with plastic Blomberg trucks...$160.00

    That in a 2004 OST.
    Think about it. You buy one of those Atlas units, and you get to spend that much money (in 2004 dollars, for parts probably no longer available) to make something work.

    THAT'S what I'm trying to say.
    Companies did NOT develop entire new drive systems for locomotives that didn't need it.
    P&D still lists the Geep kit for Red Caboose locos for $240.
    Last All-Nation units I bought was a pair for half that.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 29, 2013
  9. mr.dean

    mr.dean TrainBoard Member

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    Well, the NP unit is an Atlas... I just double checked it. It does not appear to be a repaint and the decals are on straight. Its actually very clean and I've seen it run and it ran out fine. All of these run, I don't think they have any running issues. Not sure about the power or load capacity of them. They feel pretty light for the scale I see it like this... they are what they are. They are 30+ year old technology and those that want to buy them know that. Only some one who wants a set like this or one of the units in particular (or possibly parts) is going to buy it anyway! The same goes for value.. they are worth what they are worth. Now that they have been identified (thank you Bremner for the positive ID), an approximate value is all I am seeking, whether that be $5 or $500. I just didn't want to overprice them and thought I'd bring them up here before listing them on the auction site. Maybe I should list all 6 engines, the caboose and the power pack in the same listing? I forgot to mention that I have 3 or 4 reefer car roofs to go with all this as well. Thanks again to all.
     
  10. ScaleCraft

    ScaleCraft TrainBoard Member

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    I called local fellow 0 scalers....and they know the old Atlas units well.
    Light weight is an issue, hauling light Atlas cars was okay....anything else, no.
    They said the axle gears would split...NWSL used to make replacements.
    New P&D chassis and weight....
    Running, they tell me tops ten bucks each.
    However, like I said earlier, evilbait....mention "rare, vintage, out-of-production" and you'll make a mint.
     
  11. Greg Elems

    Greg Elems Staff Member

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    Those are O scale from the 1970's. AHM and Atlas both tried to break into the O scale market. Light weight models and less than popular engine choices. Atlas offered the F9, people questioned why not the F7 which was way more popular both in scale and prototype. AHM and their Fairbanks Morse C-Liner, another why that model question. Both makers had large flanges on their wheels, so scale people didn't like them and the Lionel collectors and operators didn't like them because they were plastic. Model Railroader had an article on how to make the Atlas F9 more sure footed. Cheap or unstable plastic in the gears did cause a lot of grief. NWSL sold replacement wheels and gears for those who wanted them for scale layouts. You can find them at O scale shows, not as cheap as they are valued but still out there. P&D Hobbies brought out a kit for the F units that complimented the Atlas F9 but you could make an F2 through F9 with the kit and they offered a B unit which the old Atlas never offered. The current Atlas bought the molds from P&D and offer a much more rugged and heavy F unit. You might try going to yahoo and O scale yard sale group to sell them. No eBay charges and you will get what they are worth. Good luck.

    Greg
     

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