New 3x10 N gauge layout suggestions/ideas/advice

Adam Senior Oct 25, 2021

  1. Adam Senior

    Adam Senior TrainBoard Member

    38
    91
    2
    Hey everyone — Thanks so much for the continued input, I will get to read all of this at some point soon! Got distracted with real-life stuff.
     
  2. BigJake

    BigJake TrainBoard Member

    3,259
    6,173
    70
    You're welcome. I understand that real-life stuff. Although I'm retired and have more time than I used to, I also have a son who just bought his first house...

    Life must go on!
     
  3. Adam Senior

    Adam Senior TrainBoard Member

    38
    91
    2
    Good afternoon everyone — I appreciate all of your input. As always life gets in the way of things. But, i did want to give you an update on where I am at.

    Since posting last — I've added a secondary elevation level for my industry/town area. My hope is that this will add more visual variation and create more interest. Since adding this area I wanted to be able to operate a separate loop in/out of my town, that was away from my main line. It added for some creative work on the back area to get it back down to the main elevation. But where I'm at now seems to work.

    I'm am going to be adding two more cross overs one to the left of my station so that I can have express trains pass through and in turn have my passenger locos access the platform regardless of where they come in from. Along with the addition of another one within my fiddle yard at the back. As currently my outer line is somewhat alone.

    I'm also toying with what to add to the left side area. I am thinking a hill to be able to bring the road into my town. Along with adding a spur track to take on an addition if I wanted in the future. (not sure I can get approval from the wife on that though)

    Here is a quick video I took last night. To which I think it helps show the elevation.


    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    I'm trying to take my time — but I'm chomping at the bit to start working on the scenery. One day at a time though.

    I'll keep you all updated as things keep progressing.

    Wishing you all Happy Holidays!

    CHOOCHOO!
     
  4. BigJake

    BigJake TrainBoard Member

    3,259
    6,173
    70
    Nice!

    Can you show us a view from above, of the area behind the command station / power pack? Trying to figure out the trackage you have there (not the storage tracks behind the mountain).
     
  5. Adam Senior

    Adam Senior TrainBoard Member

    38
    91
    2
    Hey Jake — Please see below. I'm still trying to figure out what to do with this area — but in my head I am thinking of building up the landscaping here. That way I have the ability to bring a road into my town. And, it will add more interest.

    Here is a quick sketch:
    [​IMG]

    Here are two images:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    I forgot to mention in my update post that I added two extra feet :D

    I'll post more updates in the coming weeks.

    Choochoo.
     
    BNSF FAN and Hardcoaler like this.
  6. Sumner

    Sumner TrainBoard Member

    2,798
    5,837
    63
    Can't help much on the road but like the layout and love the long trains. Very cool. I do have one question about the area shown in the next image...

    [​IMG]

    ... Is that a track or a road or neither. Can't really tell from the camera angle or the video.

    Sumner
     
    gmorider and BNSF FAN like this.
  7. Adam Senior

    Adam Senior TrainBoard Member

    38
    91
    2
    Hey Sumner — That whole area is actually going to be a rock slope — leading down into the valley/river area. I like the idea that the railways is coming through rough terrain/scenery — into this small little town in the mountains/hills.

    I did contemplate adding a road leading in and out — and who knows, these things change every day :D
     
    Sumner likes this.
  8. Sumner

    Sumner TrainBoard Member

    2,798
    5,837
    63
    My bad, I should of seen that it was a layer line between the two sheets of foam board.

    Might be a good place for a rough dirt road down to the river to do some fishing or boating :).

    Sumner
     
  9. BigJake

    BigJake TrainBoard Member

    3,259
    6,173
    70
    Tunnels need to have a lot more earth over them, else they would have been excavated from top down, which is much cheaper than drilling tunnels. This is a common mistake I've seen in a lot of layouts. It adds to the unwanted scene of a tunnel that was arbitrarily built up, rather than having been hewn out of an existing mountain (if not bypassed altogether).

    But the fact that you want to put a roadway, that crosses the inner, elevated tracks at grade, but also has to pass over the nearby lower mainline double tracks, has put you in a bit of a pickle here. You have to climb quite a bit to get to an elevation above the double-track that avoids the issue above (too shallow a tunnel roof).

    Otherwise, with two different track elevations, I'd probably go with a roadway grade crossing over the double tracks. Or you could build up the outer corner to a level that lets a roadway overpass cross over the tracks, which pass underneath in a trench, so to speak.

    If you go with a double track crossing at grade, note that roadway vehicles can typically tolerate much steeper grades than trains, so bringing the roadway down to the double-track level (not of the base of the double track, but of the rails, for a grade crossing) would be fairly straight forward. You can lessen the roadway grade by making the roadway more reversed-L shaped, so it crosses the upper track further to the right, then turns to the left along that elevated siding, more slowly descending to the lower elevation to cross the double tracks at grade. Then keep your corner elevation at that level for easy vehicle access to businesses there.
     
  10. Adam Senior

    Adam Senior TrainBoard Member

    38
    91
    2
    Thanks Jake! Appreciate your input. I will be sure to keep you update.
     
  11. Adam Senior

    Adam Senior TrainBoard Member

    38
    91
    2
    Bit of an update — I worked on the left side of my layout. Adding some elevation to this area really helps. I also staggered the entrance into the hill/mountain. Which creates the illusion of the lines heading to two different locations.
    [​IMG]

    It's hard to tell from this angle, but I created a valley inside of the hill — to which I will run my road. Surrounded by rocks/cliffs. And possibly an outlook, turning spot.

    Couple more shots.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]


    I'll be working on my plaster cloth next.

    I also added two more cross overs on my layout. One to the left side then one in my fiddle yard so that my outer track can have more flexibility. I am also thinking in the future if it becomes a problem. I could add more to my fiddle yard so that my outer line can technically come out of the single entrance. All in due time.
     
    gmorider, BNSF FAN, BigJake and 3 others like this.
  12. BigJake

    BigJake TrainBoard Member

    3,259
    6,173
    70
    Nice work!

    One minor change you might consider is replacing the two double crossovers on the front doubletracks with single crossovers, for multiple reasons:
    1. Eliminate the S-curve between the dbl xover and the adjacent inside curves (especially one at the entrance to the tunnel at left).
    2. Single crossovers are more prototypical on mainlines (though I use a couple dbls in my yard area) because they are simpler to build and maintain.
    3. Singe crossovers are shorter than doubles, increasing the available siding/passing lengths between them.
    Use a LH crossover on the left end, and vice-versa (the inside curve should be connected to a straight leg of the single crossover)

    You can probably re-use the dbl xovers in the yard behind the mountain, to provide more flexibility there; just mind you don't create more S curves (at least with <15R adjacent curves).
     
  13. Adam Senior

    Adam Senior TrainBoard Member

    38
    91
    2
    Hey Big Jake! Thank you for your input - that makes sense. I am guessing S curves are a no no :D

    Little update on the layout. Rock creation is in full steam over here. (need to order more materials)

    [​IMG]


    I've gotten in the base work for my landscaping in. Using chicken wire as the initial frame work, to which I applied the pre-prepped plaster cloth, which seems to have worked well. I might have bitten off more than I can chew with my large cliff face. Yet, since this is going to be the main point everyone sees from the start. I really want it to be a show stopper. My hope is by starting at the back, by the time I get to here, I'll have mastered what I need to know. Another thing I keep being mindful of, is that my layout is going to be heavily wooded. So, if I can get everything looking great without trees, once I add them - it will add another level of realism.

    [​IMG]

    My process now is to mix up small batches of sculpt mold, then place that - pressing my rocks in as I go.

    [​IMG]

    I switched up things on the left side as mentioned before. The road way down into the town is a little steep, and I was contemplating adding a bridge to lessen the gradient. But we just drove around PA this weekend and some trucks were handling pretty steep curves. Plus, it will be somewhat hidden by trees, so for the sake of the space I will keep and the added railroad crossing. I'm happy with it. Looking forward to using the road kit items from woodland scenic for this.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    I wanted to test some painting techniques and to make sure what I have going on in my head will work in practice. So, I messed around last night on this small area.

    [​IMG]

    I'll be sure to keep you all updated. But, I can say that I'm loving the modeling stage. I've got the layout at a good spot where I can technically work on the scenery to a decent point. Then finalize the trackwork on the main line area. But, I'm very happy with how it's all going.

    Choo Choo! Adam.
     
    gmorider, BNSF FAN, in2tech and 4 others like this.
  14. BigJake

    BigJake TrainBoard Member

    3,259
    6,173
    70
    A crossover incorporates an S-curve, but it is between curves of long enough radius that it does not matter.

    I have found that the following S-curves are the worst (smallest combinations of opposite radii) I tolerate on my Unitrack layouts:

    28R to/from 15R S-curve
    19R to/from 19R S-curve (same as a single crossover)

    Both are roughly only as bad as a transition directly between straight and ~9.75R curve. (Especially long) rolling stock may not look good going over it*, but it should make it through reliably.)

    *YMMV. All of my railcars have truck-mounted couplers; all of my locomotives have body-mounted couplers. The overwhelming majority of my railcars are <= 60' long.
     
  15. Adam Senior

    Adam Senior TrainBoard Member

    38
    91
    2
    Appreciate your continued input Jake.

    I've been busy working on the landscaping - below you'll find a couple of updated images. Planning on getting this to a decent stage, then I plan on figuring out my town layout as I have a couple more buildings to build/arrive. So I can lay some roads :D

    [​IMG]
    Planning on having resin on the river to the left side. With a possible walking path on the right in the dried up river bed. With some fishermen/women.

    [​IMG]
    Added the bridge supports at either end. Going to weather these + add some graffiti.

    [​IMG]
    View back down the layout into where the town will be.

    [​IMG]
    View looking back showing the cliff overhang. Going to add some rock climbers - also, not sure on how to treat the edges of the layout just yet. I will need to find some inspiration.

    [​IMG]
    Full layout view - without bridge.

    [​IMG]
    Full layout view - with bridge.

    I'll be sure to keep you updated as things progress. We have a new family member arriving early April, so trying to get as much done as I can before, without rushing.

    Watch this space.

    ChooChoo!
     
  16. french_guy

    french_guy TrainBoard Member

    628
    374
    28
    Looks nice.....have you ever made a XtrkCAD file?
    Can you share it?
     
  17. Adam Senior

    Adam Senior TrainBoard Member

    38
    91
    2
    I hate to say it, but this has been somewhat of a design in my brain and a much larger adaption of what I had as a child. Also, you'll notice I added another 2 ft to my layout since I couldn't get it to function how I wanted it. Pretty sure if I had gone in full plan mode, things would have been different.

    I'm aware that this approach could lead to some problems, but I'm more of a hands-on guy. So, I just order up some track, made the base and went from there.

    I got to building my roads last week and was struggling with how to incorporate my town. This lead me to find a small town in the USA where the trains actually go directly through the town on the main street. So, I'm working on that right now.

    I will add some more photos once things are at a good point.

    ChooChoo.

    Adam.
     
  18. Joe Lovett

    Joe Lovett TrainBoard Member

    1,608
    4,575
    62
    Sapulpa OK has a huge bottle manufacturing plant that has several sidings from a BNSF branchline that runs opposite side of street from plant. Each siding crosses street at a slight angel creating interesting auto traffic patterns, one I believe was protected by traffic light because it ran down the street so long. The four lane street is Oklahoma Route 66 as you enter Sapulpa from the east. Sidings have the loading docks right next to the street and could be a great source of photos, the plant runs parallel to the street for almost a mile.

    You could easily model the scene with the branchline running down the middle of the street in a couple places.

    Joe
     
    BNSF FAN likes this.
  19. Sumner

    Sumner TrainBoard Member

    2,798
    5,837
    63
    Cool location Joe.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    I've been by there a lot of times on the turnpike but never through town. Might do that the next time. One of my best friends lived a block off 66 in Chelsea, OK for years. My first trip west was hitchhiking 66 from St. Louis to LA in '63 when some of it still wasn't Interstate or Turnpike.

    Sumner
     
    BNSF FAN and Joe Lovett like this.
  20. Adam Senior

    Adam Senior TrainBoard Member

    38
    91
    2
    This is awesome! Thanks for the images and suggestions!

    Here are a couple of photos of the progress. Now that I have at least the roads/sidewalks in for my town. I can now focus on the outer scenery as I didn't want it to be an afterthought. Having it run through the town looks great. I will be able to have longer trains run on my outer line/continuous loop. Then I can shunt, work some smaller ops through my little town.

    Once I get the road markings on, things will really start to take shape.

    [​IMG]
    Looking back through the town from the big industry.

    [​IMG]
    Big industry on the left - mainline platform on the right.

    [​IMG]
    A closer look at the town, bridge in the far background. The close spot in the center lower area is where I plan on doing an access/stairs system that will run to the main station. The area in front of that is parking.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    I practiced making some trees using plant bed liners and dead twigs. I wanted to get an old town feel, but since it's in modern time, I liked the addition of a modern apartment-style building.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    Some more industry to the right of the town. The track in the middle runs out of the town into the hills and away. The left track runs to the main line and the offshoot will run to a locomotive work area.

    Will keep you all posted.

    Choochoo!
     

Share This Page