NEW MTL PS 2 Hopper

Joe D'Amato Jun 21, 2022

  1. JMaurer1

    JMaurer1 TrainBoard Member

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    My first pick was SP darn it! Of course WP and GN would have probably also been in the top five...
     
  2. John Moore

    John Moore TrainBoard Supporter

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    While the hoppers may look great in front of the brewery and hops storage elevator at the front of my layout no way I am going to pay $45 for a single car. So they have just priced themselves out of my business.
     
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  3. NorsemanJack

    NorsemanJack TrainBoard Member

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    I'm guessing most of us don't pay MSRP for most items. Yes, they are a bit pricey, but likely "reasonable" for the quality. I just want to see that the body mounted couplers don't create another Heavyweight situation. At that point, I may pull out my wallet. I've been in decumulation mode for years, shrinking my MTL accumulation down to just over 100, but these look pretty interesting.
     
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  4. Inkaneer

    Inkaneer TrainBoard Member

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    The discounted price for MT stuff, as calculated from an online site is about 18-20% with the pricier stuff around 18% while the cheaper stuff about 20%. You are still looking at a discounted price of over $37.00 per car. At those prices how are we going to attract younger folks to the hobby? I don't know the answer to that question but then I don't have to know the answer. The manufacturers do.
     
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  5. Kisatchie

    Kisatchie TrainBoard Member

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    Hmm... I won't pay more
    than $10 per car... I have
    8 cars... which I stole from
    Kiz...
    [​IMG]
     
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  6. NorsemanJack

    NorsemanJack TrainBoard Member

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    I've bought (and sold) many brand new Micro-trains cars for $8 - $10. Every so often, somebody with a massive collection decides to liquidate and those who sell for "good" prices sell a lot. OTOH, those who want $20 - $30 per car (or more), generally relist and relist and.....

    Granted, that doesn't work for a body style that just came out, but wait awhile and they'll emerge.
     
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  7. George Johnsen

    George Johnsen TrainBoard Member

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    It's a hard thing to balance for a manufacturer, as whenever you go to a show not one person asks for "less detail". As the demand for more and more detail grows the only way to get it is etched metal, tiny parts, and many tiny hand applied items, offerings like this have no choice but to come in at high prices, especially when hand assembled in America. This is a beautiful car, the equivalent of brass detail, at a much lower price than brass, but it is pricey because it takes a long time to assemble and has many parts. I don't think there are going to be many 100 car trains of this one, but I'm glad to have it on the market as a featured item in a train.

    If this was the only price point for new rolling stock, then we might be in trouble- BUT we do have Atlas Trainman, and some of the older MTL tools to sustain us and to encourage new participants in the hobby. I don't think it is a bad thing to have something that is at the highest of high end.
     
  8. mtntrainman

    mtntrainman TrainBoard Supporter

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    Competition for Scale Trains maybe? That may not be a bad thing.
     
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  9. Inkaneer

    Inkaneer TrainBoard Member

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    That may work for an individual modeler but does it help the hobby as a whole? I don't think so. Besides, that doesn't help a manufacturer who needs to produce new items in order to stay in business.
     
  10. freddy_fo

    freddy_fo TrainBoard Member

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    The price point is a bit high to be competition IMO. The scaletrains 4247 carbon black hopper (closest analogous) while retailing for $39.95 sell on the company site for $31.99. BLMA now Atlas makes an excellent PS 4000 for around $32 and while having nice details such as etched roof walks and applied grabs, it lacks in another area that MTL may be addressing.

    The one common detail aspect of hoppers that all the major manufacturers get wrong, likely for durability purposes and or ease of manufacturing, is the thick/wide ladder steps and bracing that extends between the hopper and corner posts at the ends of the car. The cad drawings of this PS2 appear to have addressed that and if that shows up in the final product then I think that is a worthy distinction making them more desirable. $36-$45 worth? not sure.
     
  11. mtntrainman

    mtntrainman TrainBoard Supporter

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    I seem to remember when Scale Trains first came on the scene their prices where in the stratosphere. Lucky for me...super fine details aren't that important. I can tell the difference between a hopper and a tank car, a boxcar from a flat car etc.. In the grand scheme of things...that's all that matters to me as trains move around the layout...:D

    All that being said...'clunky' details puts rolling stock in the parts boxes. :whistle:

    .
     
  12. Martin Station

    Martin Station TrainBoard Member

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    I understand that everyone's cost are going up and disposable income is going down, and if you preorder today will the money last as long as it takes for some to get items to market? Who knows? Even having a model railroad budget doesn't mean that those funds won't get reallocated. At least these will start arriving in November which is not that far off, but while the cost of these and other items may be worth it now, will they still be when they arrive?
    I would truly hate to be a manufacturer or hobby shop owner trying to make a budget or business plan based on future sales in this economy. While some can change their mind on a preorder, once the factory has started production, the owners can't.
    Ralph
     
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  13. BNSF FAN

    BNSF FAN TrainBoard Supporter

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    I get that the price is high for this particular car but hey, I'm still in for a couple whenever I see the right road name for me. After hearing Eric Smith talk about what all is going into producing this car, I am surprised they can make it here in the good ole U.S. of A. for that price anyway. Plus, M/T still has a lot of other offerings that are better price points so I don't see the price point on this model being a deal breaker or anything. Hat's off to M/T for continuing to bring new items to the market every month and supporting N scale!
     
  14. umtrr-author

    umtrr-author TrainBoard Member

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    Data point: The MSRP of the currently available Trainman PS-2 is $23.95.
     
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  15. NorsemanJack

    NorsemanJack TrainBoard Member

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    It's a free market. Supply and demand. If I can buy a nice factory fresh car that is a few years old for $10, then I'm certainly not going to pay twice as much to "help the hobby" or help a manufacturer stay in business. I personally think that this is a dying hobby and once most of us leave God's green earth it will likely be curtain time. Many others will not share my opinion. While I've downsized quite a bit, I'm still keeping a lot more stuff than I can ever expect to run. I could sell much of it today at a profit from what I paid for it, but ten or fifteen years from now I highly doubt that to be the case. I just hope that the market holds up long enough for Kato to finally release a prototypical NCL and maybe a Twin Cities Zephyr with an E5B release. Will those happen? Likely not, but that's okay too. We do have the Kato Big Boy coming. :)
     
  16. umtrr-author

    umtrr-author TrainBoard Member

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    Working on the July UMTRR now.

    A more appropriate comparison of this model is probably not to anything previously done in N Scale, but to the "brother company" Kadee*, which released a Great Northern PS-2 in HO Scale in 2005.

    http://www.kadee.com/discontinued-products/discontinued-rtr-cars/covered-hopper/8013-gn-71470

    *Kadee and Micro-Trains were split by the Edwards brothers, Keith and Dale, in 1990 into the "new" Kadee and Micro-Trains Line, Inc. Keith had MTL which focused on N and Z Scales while Dale had the "new" Kadee which had HO Scales and above.
     
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  17. Inkaneer

    Inkaneer TrainBoard Member

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    I too have done what you say buying 'used' equipment but only rolling stock. Locomotives, I always buy new. I am not a fan of all the added detail on models mainly because my stuff gets handled quite a lot and those applied details seem to disappear to places unknown. I am at the point where having a particular car, even if it was never available before, is not a necessity. I have covered hoppers with two bays, three bays and four bays all of which were purchased in the past for far less money. I'm pretty sure there are others with the same notion. This has a bearing on the market and begs the question of just how much detail and at what price can the market handle? I can't speak for the market but for me this car is not one I would purchase.
     
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  18. bman

    bman TrainBoard Member

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    I've heard "the hobby is dying" for 30 plus years now. With adding several new manufacturers, better running locos, DCC/sound, and finer detail rolling stock I would say it is not. It IS changing. I would argue that the changes are keeping the hobby alive. I get it that the changes can be hard on us "more experienced" modelers, but you can say that about almost every aspect of life as we age. But at least we won't be lost as we can read and fold a map.
     
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  19. John Moore

    John Moore TrainBoard Supporter

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    I just in the last day took a look at my covered hoppers and I have a number of different styles and road names and colors. Unless I find these somewhere at a greatly reduced price I will not be a customer.
     
  20. Traindork

    Traindork TrainBoard Member

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    I think the Micro Trains TBOXes sold rather well, and they're only a dollar less than these hoppers. Micro Trains hasn't been in business for 50 years because they don't know what they're doing. I will buy some, even though I don't "need" them. They're nice cars.
    As for model railroading dying, I hear the same in amateur astronomy and video games, my other hobbies. The participants are getting older, it's too expensive, blah blah blah. The only thing that will kill a hobby is not being welcoming to new participants, and I think we have a problem with that.
     
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