And I don't mean that the way the kids use the word "rules". LEW has sent me some real treasures, New York Central rules of the Operating Department, versions 1937 and 1956. He is now quizzing me on them. Do any of you have any of those rule books? Maybe we can convince LEW to expand this quiz to all the members. Rule 281 is someone's moniker here on the board, and I'll bet he has some knowledge.
I would guess that the 56 rules included a lot of signal changes as I believe it was about that time the 4 track ABS was converted to 2 track CTC between Cleveland and Albany and probably down to Croton Harmon. Bring on the quiz.
Yes the 1956 rule book had many changes.For you people out there with a 1956 book you also need a supplement no. 1 dated Oct. 25,1964 With the coming of TCS the rules for the movement of opposing trains on single track by block signals s-231- 234 was eliminated as well as s-241- 244 covering following movement on single track and d-251-254 following movements on two or more tracks.D- 261-264 covering movments against the current of traffic on two or more tracks.With the 56 Book rules 251-254 covered movement of trains in the same direction by block signals.This could be applied to manual block territory or auto block territory. TCS rules ran from 550-562 and was designed for use by telephone. With the distance between signals going to about 2 miles faster turn- outs and speeds were needed.Medium speed 30mph was the fastest speed under the old book.To make use of these longer turnouts they needed a faster speed.Limited speed was raised to 50 mph and was used until the track conditions started down and a passenger train crossing over turned the coffee over in the dinning car and limited speed went back down to 45 mph. The first signal in order in the 56 book to be upgraded was the approach medium to approach limited.The approach medium was still in the book but the approach limited was added and this will be true of all of the signals we will discuss. To get this information to the train crews they went to a flashing signal. Yellow over green-approach medium this means approach next signal at medium speed. Yellow over flashing green-approach limited,this means approach next signal at limited speed. You might ask why did they flash the green and not the yellow.With the yellow they retained the approach and by flashing the green which raised the speed 15 mph,if you crossed over at the next signal from 30 to 45 which is what they were after.I may run an article on reading the NYC signals but right now will tell the signals that were added in the 56 book. Next is the limited clear. Limited approach. Approach medium. Medium approach. The last two are in the supplement. As they went into PC and ConRail some signals were dropped and more flashing were added. LEW
Originally posted by fitz: And I don't mean that the way the kids use the word "rules". LEW has sent me some real treasures, New York Central rules of the Operating Department, versions 1937 and 1956. He is now quizzing me on them. Do any of you have any of those rule books? Maybe we can convince LEW to expand this quiz to all the members. Rule 281 is someone's moniker here on the board, and I'll bet he has some knowledge. I resemble that 281 remark but you lost me on what I'm supposed to know. I'm a Conrail guy (now NS) so I get put through the mill on NORACs, NS-1, etc. on a regular basis. Don't know zip about NYC except that I'm waiting patiently for the last of the Central guys to retire so I can move up a man on the roster.
Lew - Most eastern railroads such as NYC, D&H, B&M, Pennsy etc used signal rules called speed signaling. They told the engineer how fast he could go while many western railroads such as SP, ATSF & UP etc used signal rules for route signaling which told the engineer where he was going. The maximum authorized speed through turnouts was in the timetable or special instructions.
Signalguy, Yes that is why I said I might have to write about how to read the NYC signals.I tell everyone we did not care where we we were going only how fast you want us to do it . LEW
Well in the 1937 NYC Rulebook, Rule 281 was a signal rule, "Proceed," which in all cases had a top green. Many other combinations existed for the signals below the top one, and as LEW has said, they all determined what speed to Proceed at.
As signalguy pointed out,NYC had speed signals and as many rail fans may not be aware of how this works I wil try to explain.We will start at the start and work our way along. I am not a rules expert but this is what I have been taught by the old men and have experienced first hand. Here we go.NYC signals are speed signals,this means the different combinations of lights or semaphore arms tell the engineer the speed he is to operate at.The NYC signal system is based on the three head mast.Each head usually has three colored lights,red,yellow and green but not always and we cover this as we go. There are five speeds,Normal Speed- The maxiumum authorized speed, Limited Speed-A speed not exceeding forty five miles per hour.today it is 40 mph but in the 1956 book of rules it was 50 mph but lowered back to 45 mph,so we will work at 45 mph. Medium Speed-A speed not exceeding thirty miles per hour. Slow Speed-A speed not exceeding fifteen miles per hour. Restricted Speed-A speed not exceeding that which will enable a train to stop short of train,obstruction,or switch not properly lined,look out for broken rail,and not exceeding slow speed. Note -Speed restrictions apply to the entire train. o o o We will start with the top head.It can be by itself and give three indications,Green or normal,Yellow or approach and Red or stop. The middle head is Medium or Limited speed and stop.Green-Medium clear or Limited clear,Yellow-Medium approach or Limited approach. The bottom head is slow speed,restricting and stop.Green-slow clear,Yellow-restricting and Red-Stop. Now always keep in mind the color is there but it is a speed when you see a signal.If an indication only required two heads of the three to give an indication they could remove the bottom red because it served no purpose in the indication and they did not have to maintain that head. We will try a simple one first and will use three heads and two heads for the indication. o - Yellow o-Yellow o -Green o-Green o -Red From what we have learned the top light being yellow or approach and the green being in the middle or medium because it is not flashing will be called approagh medium. The meaning;Proceed approaching the next signal at medium speed.Notice how close the name comes to the meaning.The rest of the story. Train exceeding limited speed must at once reduce to that speed .Reduction to start before passing signal and be completed before accepting a more favorable indication. The approach medium signal will probably lead you to a medium approach but it don't have to.This it is going to lead you to an medium approach. o-Red o-Yellow o-Red This time all of the lights must be used.With the yellow in the middle we have learned that it is the medium speed position and the yellow means approach.The name medium approach the meaning;Proceed at medium speed preparing to stop at the next signal You must be down to 30 mph at this signal because that is what the approach medium told you.We will start with the approach signal the next time. LEW
Lew When you called a signal you wanted to make sure you called it by name and not by the colors. Right?
Most of the time yes.If we were stpped at B tower Elkhart and with steam or long nosed geep and the signal went to restricting or medium approach the engineer might say yellow bottom or yellow in the middle.This mainly to make the person on the left side alert because the engineer was blind on this left handed curve.If it was an indication unusual at a point you called it by name as an attention getter. LEW
As one of the moderators of this particular site, Conrail Predecessors (Yuk, let's just call it the New York Central!), I think it's great that we have some actual trainmen exchanging messages about the rules and signals. This was REAL railroading. You modelers take note, you may want to make your signals work like the real ones.
Wayside signals (both color and position systems, cabs are another story) in use today all have their roots in systems from predecessor railroads. The NORAC signals are all hand-me-downs from Pennsy, NYC, etc. and that's the reason there's 150+ aspects that we had to memorize to get out of engine school. Rule 281 is now called 'Clear' and means Proceed not exceeding Normal Speed but the intent is the same as the NYC indication. If you operate into different territories, you might run into quite a zoo of different aspects that all mean the same thing. And then there's the dwarf signals...
There are always special conditions. I remember the first time I rode the head end from New Haven to GCT it was a learning experience. The NH used upper quadrant semaphores and their blades were on the track side rather than the normal field side. We came to one signal and both arms were at stop but the engineer kept going at about 15. This made me nervous until he told me the third arm was a dwarf semaphore that made it RRY or restricting. There was only room for two arm up on the caternary bridge. In GCT all signals were dwarf semaphores which goverened the route over one or two turnouts so it was called restricting, first left second right. This indicated the position of the turnout which gave them an idea which station track they were routed to.
Those special conditions are the ones you've got to watch out for. 99% of railroading seems to have at least one exception to the rule, signals included. "You always do it this way unless you happen to be handling that...etc." The oddball situation that changes the rule is the one that gets a fair amount of people time off that they really weren't planning on. Keeps you on your toes and/or puzzled.
The approach signal is what I call a stand alone signal.With a Yellow over Red over Red we can do away with the two Reds and have the same indication.The main difference between the medium approach and approach is the speed. Approach-Indication-Proceed preparing to stop at next signal.Train exceeding that speed must at once reduce to that speed.Reduction to commence before passing signal and be completed before accepting a more favorable indication. You will notice the train can go by the signal at 60 mph and we played that to the hilt.We would start reduction about 3 cars before passing the signal.With the medium approach you must be at 30 passing the signal. The next signal is a restricting. Red over Red over Yellow.You can take away the top red but you must leave a red over yellow.If you did not you would have an approach indication.We know the speed will be slow speed because the indication is on the bottom head.This is the worse indication an engineer will ever see It tells him nothing except he may proceed by the signal,there could be a train 2 ft. on the other side of the signal and has nothing to do with where he is going. We will drop back to the approach medium,Yellow over Green,which tells us to approach the next signal at medium speed.The next signal will be Red over Green over Red.With the green being in the middle position or the medium speed position we know that is a 30 mph signal and the green is clear then the indication is proceed,medium speed within the interlocking. Name-medium clear.This also tells me the next signal will be some kind of a proceed signal. The signals on the NYC were about 1 mile apart until TCS and with the 1 mile signals they had 3 advance approach signals. Green over Yellow over Red.The RED could be removed without changing the indiction.By the green being on top That is proceed,The yellow in the middle is medium so the indication is -Proceed approaching second signal at medium speed. Name-Advance approach Medium. Yellow overYellow over Red.The red could be removed. This signal is basicly an approach to a approach.This is a straight line signal,meaning you will not crossover. The yellow on top proceed and as we have learned approach and the yellow in the middle position or medium speed. Indication-proceed preparing to stop at second signal.Train exceeding limited speed must at once reduce to that speed.Reduction to commence before passing signal and be completed before accepting a more favorable indication. Red over Yellow over Yellow.The red must stay. With the red over yellow the yellow being in the middle or medium speed The bottom yellow telling you the next signal will move you. Indication-proceed preparing to stop at second signal.medium speed within interlocking limits. Name-Medium advance approach If they crossed you over at this signal the one before this would be approach medium to get you down to medium speed.They cannot run you from a clear to medium approach because you have to be down to 30 mph passing the signal.The advance approach is the only one left of these signals. Next time we will work on dwarfs and flashing signals. LEW
Good lesson Lew. There used to be an instruction book which explained how to understand signal aspects that explained the siignals the same way you do. I wonder if that is still in existance. How about it Rule 281?
I will try to copy the B&M Signal rules from late 1960's and post here. There are less aspects than NYC had. [ 10. February 2003, 14:45: Message edited by: signalguy ]
Gil, for contrast, here are the first 6 of 14 pages from the New York Central 1956 rules. LEW wants me to post them all, but will do a few at a time. I'm sure he will comment on them. [ 13. February 2003, 21:34: Message edited by: fitz ]
We will cover two more signals before going to dwarf signals. These are three head signals and all three must be used to diplay the proper indication. Red over Yellow over Green.By the yellow being in the middle we have medium speed and the green on the bottom tells us that is slow speed. You can see if you take away the red we would have an approach medium so the red must stay. With our system of reading signals we have ,Medium approach slow as a name. Indication-Proceed at medium speed approaching next signal at slow speed. I will show how Norac rules have taken this signal and deluted it. Sometime before 1992 they took this signal away and then came back with it and called it a medium approach medium to fit in with a B&O signal. You would have thought ln keeping with the system they would have done it properly.To have made the aspect fit the name and indication all they had to do was flash the Green. The next signal is an approach slow Yellow over Red over Green. Withe Yellow or yellow red we have an approach and with the green on the bottom a slow speed.This indication also must use all three lights. If you take out the red then you have approach medium. Name-Approach-Slow. Indication-Proceed approaching next signal at slow speed.Train exceeding medium speed must at once reduce to that speed. We are now going to the Dwarf signal and show how they are up graded and the system used up through the flashing or limited signals. A dwarf asgnal is-a low signal. This means they ar one light on the ground to 3 lights about 4 ft. high They may be on the corner of buildings,we had one at Indy on side apron of a bridge. We are going to start from a stop and go to a clear signal. The next signal from a sto is restricting- You can have 1 yellow light on the ground or 2 lights the top red and the bottom yellow.The indication is the same as the high signal. Before going farther we will talk speed.Signals are upgraded in 15 mph steps as a rule so watch as we progress.Dwarfs as a rule are for slower tracks,in terminals etc.and once they lead you to the main high signals are used for visibilty. This is really the signal to start upgradeing all of the other signals. Yellow over Red-Slow Approach Indication-Proceed preparing to stop at next signal.Slow speed within interlocking limits. Now to upgrade this signal we don't want to change approach part just the speed and only 15 mph.Fash the red ,now you go to 30 mph and you have a medium approach. Green on the ground or Green over Red. Slow Clear Inication-Proceed; Slow speed within interlocking. Same thing applies.Flash the red and raise the speed 15 mph to 30 mph and you have medium clear. With the medium approach we have a 3 light dwarf like the high signal. Red over Yellow over Red. Next- Red over Green over Red.This is like the medium approach a 3 light dwarf-Name Medium Clear Indication-Proceed-Medium speed within interlocking limits. Advance approach-Yellow over Yellow. The same indication as the high signal. Approach Medium-Yellow over Green. The same indication as the high signal. Now watch what we start doing with some of the dwarfs going back to the slow approach when we flashed the red on the bottom. Remember how we raised the slow approach to a medium approach by flashing the red.Now we want to raise the medium approach to limited approach by flashing the yellow which raises the speed 15 mph to a limited approach. The high signal will have the middle light flashing. Also the single light dwarf can give this indication by flashing the yellow because the red can be done away with. Next we will raise the green over flashing red- medium clear to limited clear.This is done the same way by flashing the green raising the speed 15 mph to limited speed. The middle light flashing on the high signal. Next we will raise yellow over green approach medium to a approach limited. This is done by flashing the green raising the speed by 15 mph to approach limited. The green flashing on the high signal. That's it on the 1956 book.I think Fitz is going to post the signals and that should make it easier. NORAC did away with the advance approach and made it approach slow. Then to get a advance approach they flashed the yellow on the approach. There isn't any way this will work. By flashing you increase the speed not the intent of the signal.It is an advance approach because they say it is, not because it indicates it. LEW