I must correct a mistake I made on page 3 of the thread about THE STEAM LOCOMOTIVE. Without checking, I wrote that the Niagara whistle was the same 6-chime as used on the Mohawks and Hudsons. I should never trust my memory. That was not correct. Today I noticed a file on my computer with the correct information: "The Niagaras carried Hancock long bell, 3-chime steam whistles, the same whistle used on SP4449, UP844, N&W 611 etc. The Hancock was marketed by Manning, Maxwell and Moore Inc. of New York. It sounded a deep minor triad chord with the musical notes A-C-E. They were the only commercially manufactured whistles expressly designed for steam pressure in excess of 250 PSIG. They were mounted horizontally on the top of the fireman's side of the smokebox, next to the stack. In most photos they are difficult to see because of a rectangular baffle seen above the smoke deflector As far as I've been able to ascertain, they were never removed. From recordings that I have heard it appears the air horns were preferred or perhaps encouraged by management, but I have heard recordings with just the steam whistle as well as one recording where both the steam whistle and air horn were used in succession. The Niagaras were the only New York Central power that used those Hancock whistles." As for Mohawk whistles: "NYC Mohawk engines with their shop-made 6-chimes were the clearest and most beautiful 6-chimes ever made, much more clear and musical than the Southern Pacific 6-chimes which are considered to be among the best in sound." but from another source: "Nathan steptop 6-chime, as used by New York Central on their Hudson and Mohawk class locomotives, sounding a perfect C#D#FGA#C# combination."
That is some interesting history, Mike. I only wish that I had paid more attention to the last of the mainline steamers back then and could have memorized some of the whistles, but I failed to do that. Interesting that the Niagaras used the same whistles as some of today's restored steamers with high steam pressure. I got to witness 4449 whistling off last weekend at the Oregon Rail Heritage Foundation Holiday Express. It still gives me chills, but then at 25 degrees outside air temp, maybe that contributed. :tb-biggrin:
I wish we had access to more recordings of NYC whistles in routine operation than those few included with the track pan video I posted in the Steam thread. BTW, Mike, you are excused for your failing memory. I had no clue that you had even made an error. In fact I didn't have a clue what you were talking about. :tb-embarrassed:
For those who want to hear what the Niagara's Hancock 3-chime sounded like, we can locate recent recordings of other locomotives equipped with them. In searching for examples, though, I discovered one has to be careful. There has been a lot of swapping of whistles on excursion trains. But I was able to sort out a few good examples. Here they are for your enjoyment: the Hancock 3-chime on Southern Pacific 4449: And this: UP 844- Also from the last run of N&W 611 December 7, 1994:
Mike, thanks for those. I probably shouldn't put this on the NY Central forum, but I sure have heard 4449's whistle plenty. This was in 2009 running through North Dakota, so it sported a different whistle from the one in your video. I need to learn how to post a video here.
I brought this thread back as I discovered more information regarding the use of the air horn versus the whistle on the Niagaras. It seems management discouraged enginemen from using the whistle. Here is why: Much documentation was written about the savings utilized by the NYC about the use of Air Horns on the Niagras. And when they had the Niagras in the test plants they took the sum of all the crossings and an average of addition warnings and calculated the amount of lost steam and put a pipe with an oriface set to constantly bleed the calculated amount of steam for the duration of the test. The test was also performed with no bleed and peak horsepower releases of steam and no releases at all. The goal was to produce a steam locomotive that could produce enough boiler horsepower and evaporation to sustain a 1000 ton train at 100mph with light firing methods. Now when you look at the savings versus one locomotive times the amount of locomotives the NYC had, times the daily use it adds up pretty quick. Let alone the water savings, the water treatment costs, the scale build up and expense of wash downs and repairs it was a substantial sum.
Mike, I had never considered that blowing a whistle would have any appreciable effect on a steam locomotive's operation and maintenance. But the way you presented the total picture including many sub-order effects, it becomes "intuitively obvious to the most casual observer", to quote a co-worker of many years ago. It also highlights the shortcomings of allowing my being a steam locomotive nut to overshadow my capabilities as an engineer (computer) trained to identify and analyze ALL consequences, intended and unintended, of any action. Oh well, too soon old, too late smart...LOL BTW, thanks to your resurrecting this thread, I went back and re-played your 4449, 844, and 611 videos. Those sounds are beautiful, and 844's stack talk while starting is outstanding....Thanks!
Interesting about the air horns. I have since learned that the SP preferred the use of the air horns on the GS classes, and those beautiful whistles were seldom used. I am so glad that Doyle McCormack does not like 4449's air horn and uses the whistle almost exclusively. Mike, thanks for bringing this thread back to life. :happy:
Oh, and by the way, Doyle has the whistle activated with a lever and whistle cord so he can "quill" the whistle - which he does - beautifully Another thing I discovered was that on this locomotive as well as NYC Hudsons, Mohawks, and Niagaras, whistles were activated by Viloco solenoid valves. What that means is the steam was fed full-force or not at all, as in ON-OFF. No quilling possible. That is why the whistles sounded different back then. They would instantly be smacked with the full force of steam so they would often overblow or shriek. NYC also tended to mount their whistles close to the boiler and with steam deflector baffles. That would distort the sound by causing the flutes closest to the obstacle to not blow properly and be detuned.
Now that you mention it, when I got the wonderful opportunity to run PM 1225, it had the solenoid controlled whistle, just ON-OFF. No fun at all. :sad:
Mike, I never realized that about a whistle being controlled by a solenoid valve. I guess that's why my memories of steamers on the Rutland's Corkscrew Division are still so vivid. I clearly remember the Rut's quilling whistles echoing throughout the Hoosick River Valley as the "Rut Milk" was heading towards Chatham, NY and interchange with the Central's Harlem Division seven days a week. It was a wonderful sound, especially in winter when there were no leaves to a mute the echoes.
Nothing like reviving a 5 year old thread. I have come to this post often for information regarding the NYC Mohawk whistles. A few years ago I purchased the CD of L3a blueprints from the NYCS Historical Society and only just recently started looking at the prints regarding the whistles. The prints state that the Niagaras, Hudsons, L4a & L4b Mohawks and Pacifics all had 6 chime whistles. EVERY OTHER class (except U3a) had 5 chimes. While the Hudsons, Pacifics, Mohawks and Niagaras (and a few other classes) had a Viloco solenoid valve to actuate the whistle valve via a valve in the cab, the prints call for a cable to be attached to the whistle lever on the L2a to L4b Mohawks, all Hudsons and K5a to K6b Pacifics. Looking at photos I have of 3001's cab, I noticed it did indeed have a pulley inside the cab for the cable as well as a whistle operating lever "catch" above the engineer seat. This tells me that at least the engineers on the Hudsons and Mohawks were able to quill their whistles.
That is interesting. As for the prints, they usually have notes with updates in the lower corner. You would probably find a note to the effect that Niagaras received the Hancock whistles. They may have originally wanted to standardize on the 6-chime whistles for road power, but when the Niagaras went into service with 275-pound boiler pressure they found that the whistles could not withstand that pressure - at least not for long. The Hancocks were the only commercially available whistles made to withstand pressures over 250 pounds. That is also why the other modern steam power like that on the N&W, the UP and the SP also were equipped with the Hancocks. Any clue as to what whistle was to be used on the U3a's? I wonder why they were different.
Looked at the 6 chime print again. The revisions to the print are as follows: "ISSUE : B --- ALTERATIONS : S1A, B, S2A ADDED --- DATE : 5/29/46" The only note of possible interest is: "Note No. 2 : This whistle is not used on locomotives operating in territory where special type of whistle is required of on K5 streamlined locomotives." I do not know why the U3a's had a different whistle and the prints don't direct me to a print of said whistle. I'd be interested in learning that as well.
