NYC niagara

hudsonut1 Apr 23, 2001

  1. hudsonut1

    hudsonut1 TrainBoard Member

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    Hi Guys
    I don't know for sure if I asked this question on this forum,if so,sorry for the repeat.Seems I ask everyone and so far no luck.
    I NEED a photo of the top of a Niagara that shows the detail around the smokbox top/stack/feedwater heater/whistle area.
    I am re-detailing an older O scale model and want to know where everything in supposed to go.I have some shots but I know that have seen just the photo that I need but can not now find it.....
    Thanks
    Ron :confused:
     
  2. ten87

    ten87 TrainBoard Member

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    What I had posted here was a temporary lapse in my sense of decorum. I'm sorry if it offended anyone. I'll save my sophomoric behavior for an appropriate time and place.

    [ 23 April 2001: Message edited by: ten87 ]
     
  3. CPRailfan

    CPRailfan TrainBoard Member

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    I don't even know what a niagra is [​IMG] I'll leave this steam locomotive stuff to you guys [​IMG]

    [ 24 April 2001: Message edited by: CPRailfan ]
     
  4. watash

    watash Passed away March 7, 2010 TrainBoard Supporter In Memoriam

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    Yeah Fritz, you are right, we were having an agedly challenged moment. I have not seen but one top view of any steamer except one shot in a movie taken from an overpass as the engine passed beneith.

    [ 24 April 2001: Message edited by: watash ]
     
  5. fitz

    fitz TrainBoard Member

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    As the moderator of this board, just getting home from riding behind the SP&S 4-8-4 700 for two days, I see this kind of stuff on this forum, and thank you all for correcting it. Good on all of you! [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    [ 29 April 2001: Message edited by: fitz ]
     
  6. ten87

    ten87 TrainBoard Member

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    It's my understanding that Alco built 25 of the 4-8-4's for NYC. I'm not sure what the exact differences were between their other 4-8-4 locomtotives and the Niagras, but I found this link with some photos.
     
  7. hudsonut1

    hudsonut1 TrainBoard Member

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    Jim
    Thanks for the comments.I was about to do the same.I sure don't need a responce to a question in that manner
    Hope your tip was at least Fun...
    That link to 4-8-4s was interesting but didn't do the trick. But thanks for the thought.
    Ron
    :(
     
  8. fitz

    fitz TrainBoard Member

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    Ron, I have never seen a photo of the Niagara top. Hudson, yes, taken at a coal dock. They did a pretty good job of hiding whatever plumbing was exposed around the stack and smokebox.
    Ed, this photo is for you. The REAL 4-8-4.
    [​IMG]
     
  9. Hudson5432

    Hudson5432 TrainBoard Member

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    Here are some "differences" between New York Central Niagaras and any other 4-8-4 you can identify:
    1) Highest boiler HP ever measured on a two cylinder steam locomotive (6680 at 85 mph)
    2) Highest drawbar HP ever measured on a two cylindered steam locomotive - 5070 at 63 mph. (Note N&W J fans repeat an error, claiming 5100 DBHP at 40 mph. Per Pond of the N&W, in a Railway Mechanical Engineer article dated May, 1946, the actual measured was 5040 DBHP with 300 lb. steam pressure, making the Niagara #1).
    3) Highest monthly mileage of any steam locomotive in the world, over 26,000 miles per month. As a class of 26 engines on varying schedules, they exceeded 16,000 miles per month per engine during their first two years.
    4) Highest availability of any steam locomotive in the world, exceeded 85%
    5) Highest utilization (ie amount of time available) of any steam locomotive in the world, exceeding 65%
    6)Highest tender coal capacity of any locomotive in the world, 46 tons.
    7) Only two cylinder steam locomotive capable of over 4000 drawbar HP at 100 mph.
    8) Highest power to weight ratio of any U.S. steam locomotive.
    And the descriptive statistics above do not do them justice, especially seeing one perform! In daily service they ran between 90-100 mph (when the NYC speed limit was 90), and could take 15 air conditioned cars over 100 mph.
     
  10. fitz

    fitz TrainBoard Member

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    Tom, thanks for that reply, which says more than I could ever contribute to the outstanding performance of that great engine.

    Now, if you have a photograph taken from above, we could answer Ron's question. (Partly in jest.) ;)
     
  11. rhensley_anderson

    rhensley_anderson TrainBoard Supporter

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    Tom,

    Can I have permission to use your Niagra stats in an issue of the CID, NMRA Rusty Spike? I may not use it, but it is great prototype filler material for the Central fans here in central Indiana if I do.

    Roger

    Roger Hensley - rhensley@anderson.cioe.com
    == http://madisonrails.railfan.net/ ==
    == Railroads of Madison County (Indiana) ==
    [​IMG]
     
  12. Hudson5432

    Hudson5432 TrainBoard Member

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    Roger,
    Please feel free to use this info. It is fully documented in NYC literature and a road test report.
    This info was included in two articles I wrote on Niagaras several years ago for the NYC Historical Society. Anyone with any interest at all in NYC should join us! We would be pleased to have you as a member.
    Address is:
    NYCSHS
    PO Box 81184
    Cleveland, Ohio 44181-0184
    Annual dues is $30.00 per year and includes four issues of "The Headlight" magazine, including info for modelers, RR operation, steam, diesel, and electric, etc.
     
  13. hudsonut1

    hudsonut1 TrainBoard Member

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    Good greif..this thread sure got unraveled...nothing there has any thing to do with my question.....THANKS GUYS......

    KIDDING.........


    Top views of engines are hard to come by and I have seen some including the one that I want (and need) ,IS out there I just can't re-find it.
    I may have enough now to piece it together.
    Thanks
    Ron
    [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  14. watash

    watash Passed away March 7, 2010 TrainBoard Supporter In Memoriam

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    Hudsonut, try:
    modelrailroader.net
    bullsheet.com
    alltrains.com
    railsusa.com
    dnaco.net/~gelwood/new27-02sept.html (many photos of 4-8-4 NYC)
    archive.trainpix.com
    transalert.com (RR ref. books)
    northeast.railfan.net
    rush2ny@aol.com Photos $$
    railroad.net/baldwin
    trainpage.com

    All are the only sources I know that might have the view you seek. I went to sleep searching the Dnaco site NYC photos, they must have hundreds.
     
  15. Hytec

    Hytec TrainBoard Member

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    Ron, I felt that I had to show that someone actually read your original post and request :D

    The following image shows 6000 from a 3/4 upper front angle.

    [​IMG]


    The original of the image is in Kalmbach's Steam Locomotive Cyclopedia, Volume 1, page 230. The image was printed weakly, and the original photo may have been overexposed. I tried to enhance the contrast and the brightness to highlight the top plumbing, but .... [​IMG]

    I think I remember someone posting a "where is this" a short while back with a photo that showed a Niagara side from an upper angle :confused:

    Hank

    [ 25 April 2001: Message edited by: Hank Coolidge ]
     
  16. hudsonut1

    hudsonut1 TrainBoard Member

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    Thanks guys!!
    I have seen most of what you have mentioned and I'll check out the rest.
    My guess is that most of the brass importers are just guessing because they tell me that they don't have anything,except PSC who sent me two photos that "nearly" shows everything.
    I'm not trying to do a contest model with ALL of the nuts and bolts,I just want to make my old one look better.
    Thanks again
    Ron [​IMG]
     
  17. Hudson5432

    Hudson5432 TrainBoard Member

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    Ron,
    I read your request, but have no image in mind for the top smokebox view of a 6000. I have the Kalmbach book, and of course the Headlight that shows 6002 on its side. I have a PSC O scale model, but am not sure it is correct as I have never seen a drawing of this area. The "Rails to Pittsburgh" book has some overhead views. If you are one of the legendary O scale 10 amp "rivet counters", then noen of this will be acceptable documentation for you. I have never seen a photo on the web of a top view of a 6000, and all my negs are really 3/4 roster shots... If you do locate such a view, I would also be interested in seeing it!
    Regards,
    Tom Gerbracht
    PS Sorry about the thread...got carried away by smoke deflectors...
     
  18. fitz

    fitz TrainBoard Member

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    You guys all make me very happy with the correspondence on this subject. Tom, I LOVED that last comment about the smoke deflectors. I just can't resist this, and put a photo up for what my wife and I were part of last weekend. No smoke deflectors, lots of steam pressure (note the safeties popped) and a thoroughly enjoyable experience. The Spokane, Portland and Seattle 700. I just wish it could have been a Niagara. Photo by Martin E. Hansen. [​IMG]

    [ 25 April 2001: Message edited by: fitz ]

    [ 25 April 2001: Message edited by: fitz ]
     
  19. hudsonut1

    hudsonut1 TrainBoard Member

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    Ah...Jim...that aint no Niagara...pretty as it is....
    Hi to you wife..she is indeed brave to put up with the likes of you.. [​IMG]
    No Tom ,I'm not a rivit counter, but as I said I just want it to look better than it does and I don't want to make it worse by putting the piping in the wrong spot. Your PSC model is most likely pretty close as they are the only ones to send me anything close to what I need. I have a bunch of PSC parts to add to the engine as well.
    I have know and worked with Dave Bush for many years ,I know that he does care that his models are as close as can be with the information that is avaiable.
    Thanks
    Ron [​IMG]
     
  20. Hudson5432

    Hudson5432 TrainBoard Member

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    Ron,
    I do not have a digital camera, or I could photograph and post the top of my PSC. My guess is that the info you received from PSC is better than anything I could do here.

    Fitz-I envy you, living in an area where you can ride big steam. There is nothing in the east like it at this time. I know Doyle McCormack (met him when we did NKP 759), and he and his crew have done a terrific job on SP&S 700. I was really impressed by the Web page of this organization! (I don't know how to include live links on this page, perhaps you could assist?)
    Anyway, while I also like SP GS4 #4449, I am most interested in the SP&S engine, and its terrific performance.
     

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