North Star Division - HO Scale Layout Plan

mtaylor Aug 4, 2009

  1. mtaylor

    mtaylor Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

    2,772
    185
    49
    I know my signature says Thomas Division....well it changed :)

    I have been working on my HO scale Layout Plan and it is still a work in progress. The layout will be located in the attic of our house. Before layout construction can even begin in the simplest form, MAJOR work in the attic is required to include a new roof (That project should be starting sometime this month) and major remodling of the attic to include new windows, drywall, some floor repair, and electrical and climate control installed.

    I hope to start layout construction sometime in 2010. The layout is a major project (sort of like my now defunt Canton Division :)). But the threat of moving is virtually non existent for at least the next 20 years :)

    I will post the information I have now and bear in mind, this is a work in progress and changes in the plan are almost certain.

    This is the available layout space. The widest area is about 12.25 feet with the room length right at 30 feet. (12.25' x 30')
     

    Attached Files:

  2. mtaylor

    mtaylor Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

    2,772
    185
    49
    The layout concept is fictional based on my mutation of Minnesota. The Twin Cities is respresented by the city of Marionapolis. My wife's name is Marion, the city's name sake (which she rolled her eyes to when I told her).

    BNSF and Canadian Pacific share a small classification yard in Marionapolis that recieves exchange traffic from the Twin Cities Western daily and from the Union Pacific from time to time.

    The Canadian Pacific directly serves the following idustries in Marionapolis
    1. Dodge Assembly Plant
    2. Large Grain Elevator (not yet named)
    3. Large Flour Mill (not yet named)

    The BNSF directly serves the following industries in Marionapolis
    1. Hardwood Furniture (will be renamed)
    2. Printing plant
    3. McCabe Brewing Company
    4. A power station located in Lowertown Marionapolis

    Both the BNSF and CP share usage of loco servicing facilites, rail yard, and a open air transload facility. The mainline is owned by BNSF with access leased to CP

    Both BNSF and CP provide services either directly or indirectly to all industries in Marionapols and connecting communities.

    Here is a map of the service area in Minnesota (needs to be updated somewhat)

    Going West from Marionapolis (To lower level)
    First town is Arnold. Arnold is the junction of BNSF/CP, Union Pacific, and Twin Cities Western.

    Union Pacific connects to BNSF tracks to continue to Marionapolis. It will either interchange with BNSF and Canadian Pacifc at Marionapolis or continue north from Marionapolis to Duluth Minnesota. South of Arnold the UP goes to Mankato, MN towards Sioux City Iowa and the rest of the UP network.

    The lower level (30" above floor) is mainly dedicated to the Twin Cities Western shortline that in real life runs from Hopkins MN in the east (and then uses BNSF and CP tracks to interchange with them in the Twin Cities) and to Appleton MN in the western part of the state. I have changed the name of the towns so that I can model freelance. The lower level is rural farm area with two small towns and a ethanol plant. The lower level is west of Marionapolis (except for helix to staging which represents all off layout cities).

    The main level (45" above floor, 15" above lower level) is all the city of Marionapolis

    The Upper level (65" above floor, 20" above portions of main level (some of main level is not covered by the upper level)) is north of Marionapolis with the fictional town of Lake Wayne. This is the BNSF branch to Duluth that is also used by CP and UP.

    Staging will be large and will represent off layout cities such as Chicago, Duluth, Fargo, Sioux City, Winnipeg, Seattle. Staging will be 19" from floor and 11" below the lower level. Staging will be designed to hold entire trains. Operating sessions preping will require for me to probably crawl on the floor :( This has yet to be designed.

    I will provide a post dedicated to each specific level.
     

    Attached Files:

  3. mtaylor

    mtaylor Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

    2,772
    185
    49
    LOWER LEVEL - Twin Cities Western:

    Arnold:
    This is where the TCW meets up with the BNSF to exercise track rigts to Marionapolis.
    There are only two industries in Arnold. A LTCR freight station and a grain elevator. I will likely also include a team track loading/unloading opportunity near the freight station. The freight station is a model made by my late father for my first HO layout in 1977/1978.

    Ethanol Plant:
    I was planning all along to custom hack an ethanol plant. I was delighted to learn that Walthers will be releasing kits for this industry soon. This is the biggest traffic generator for the TCW on my layout.

    Taylorville:
    This town is very loosely inspired by Glenco, MN. Taylorvile is where the TCW is based. There is a small servicing facility and small storage yard here. Industries include Mandalyn Foods, a grain elevator, and an implement dealer. I will be re-working the track plan for Taylrorville as I am currently not please with it. It looks too busy right now for the size of the town and the rurual aspect of the area.

    From Taylorville a train can proceed to staging or proceed to Arnold or Marionapolis. Continuios running is possible on this level.

    TCW runs a daily train to Marionapolis (The Marionapolis Turn) for interchange with BNSF, CP, UP. An additional train can be added to Marionapolis if needed. I will have five locos for TCW. 2 GP20 and 3 GP30. The GP30 locos will be assigned to the Marionapolis turn and where needed. The GP20 locos serve all the industries on the lower level and for westard destinations depicted in staging.
     

    Attached Files:

  4. westcoaster

    westcoaster TrainBoard Supporter

    108
    16
    12
    Roll on 2010:thumbs_up: Gonna be good to follow,even if wrong scale:tb-biggrin:!!One of the fun parts is planning eh.Cant wait to see more of this.Stu.
     
  5. mtaylor

    mtaylor Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

    2,772
    185
    49
    Main Level:
    Marionapolis

    This is the main level and busiest level of the layout. The main feature of this level is the small (large to me) shared classification yard between BNSF and Canadian Pacific. The classification yard itself consists of seven long stub ended tracks that can hold my longest planned routine train. Trains will be created here to be routed to either local industries in Marionapolis, Lake Wayne (Lake Wayne Turn daily train), interchanged with UP or TCW, or BNSF/ CP trains to Chicago, Duluth, Fargo, Winnipeg, or Seatle (all represented by staging).

    Downtown (not fully planned) will reside at least 4" above over the helix down to the lower level and will be built on a shelf over the helix.

    Canadian Pacific directly serves the Dodge Assembly Plant, Large Grain Elevator,and a Flour mill (backdrop kit).

    BNSF directly serves Hardwood Furniture, Northen Light & Power, Geo Roberts Printing, and McCabe Brewing Company.

    BNSF and Candadian Pacific share the use of a open air transload building.

    Amtrak has a passenger station in Marionapolis served by the Amtrak Empire Builder (Chicago to Seatle) and smaller train to Duluth via Lake Waye.

    BNSF and UP also operate excursion trains. BNSF operates a F7 led GN Empire Builder that runs from Chicago to Seattle but often diverges to Duluth and other locations. BNSF also operates a smaller Great Northern excursion train that is lead by GN 3202 heavy Mikado with four heavyweight passenger cars. This train typically runs from Chicago to Duluth. Union Pacific operates it's 3985 Challenger led excursion train from Sioux City Iowa to Duluth, MN often via Marionapolis.

    The Marionapolis yard can handle mutiple inbound and outbound medium to small trains. Large unit trains such as grain trains will occupy most of the tracks dedicated to arrival and departures. There are two arrival tracks and two departure tracks. There is one track used by Amtrak witht he mainline seperating the Amtrak and arrival / departure tracks. Trains can be routed to any fo these six tracks as needed provided they are not occupied.

    Downtown Marionapolis as stated will reside above the helix that goes to the lower level. The upper level does not reside over the Downtown area thus allowing for an impressive downtown cityscape.

    Lowertown Marionapolis is right next to Downtown and hosts several of the industries in Marionapols.

    The PDF for this level is 210K which exceeds trainboards attachment size allowed. I will post this level soon.
     
  6. mtaylor

    mtaylor Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

    2,772
    185
    49
    OK,
    Here is the Main Level - Marionapolis. I had to reduce the print quality to 300dpi from 600dpi. It works for seeing the layout plan for this level. Again, changes are likely to happen as time goes on. That being said, this level is pretty close to where I want it with some tweaking needed for the loco service area and the spurs servingt the flour mill....I think I will get rid of the curved parts, maybe. :)
     

    Attached Files:

  7. mtaylor

    mtaylor Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

    2,772
    185
    49
    Upper Level - Lake Wayne (BNSF Duluth Branch)

    Lake Wayne is a medium to smallish sized town between Marionapolis and Duluth Minnesota. Lake Wayne's to prominent industries are the Paper Mill and the regional coal fired power station. There is also a small grain elevator and a scrap metal recyler located here. All the industries in Lake Wayne are served by BNSF. Candian Pacific and Union Pacific pass through Lake Wayne en route to Duluth (Layout operation of trains from Marionapolsi to Duluth will be depicted by the trains running up through the upper level and then back down to staging).

    There is a small vintage passenger depot in Lake Wayne that again sees passenger service from Amtrak (Marionapolis to Duluth run) and from Excursion Trains from BNSF and UP from time to time.

    Lake Wayen Power Station:
    BNSF Coal Unit Trains service the power station. Operations require that the unit train be broken up in about half sections and staged in the staging tracks off the mainline. Then the locos pick up one string of empties from the power station's yard and stage these in the last remaining staging track. Next, one string of loaded cars is spotted in the yard. Followed by the remaining empties to be staged in the staging tracks. After the last string of loaded cars is spotted in the yard, the locos will runaround the staging tracks to assemble the strings of empties for the return trip to Maironapolis for a crew change and then proceed back west for more black diamonds (staging).

    In an attempt to keep operations with a sense of direction, I am planning the coal unit trains and the Lake Wayne Turn trains to have to return to Marionapolis from the same track the train arrived on requiring run around opeations. Trains proceeding to duluth will be allowed to navigate aroudn the upper level en route to staging.

    Lake Wayne Turn:
    The Lake Wayne Turn is a daily (or more if needed) BNSF train from Marionapolis yards to Lake Wayne servicing all industries in Lake Wayne with the exception of the power station. Typical power for the turn will be two SD40-2 locos or simualr power. Light trains will likely have GP40 locos.

    Lake Wayne industry switching duties will be performed by the BNSF loco assigned to the power station. This will typicaly be an SD9 loco.

    The Lake Wayne Turn will be required to use the staging tracks near the power station in order for it to swich the industries in Lake Wayne. Thus the Lake Wayne Turn will be required to clear the main for Amtrak trains and the Lake Wayne Power Station Unit Train.
     

    Attached Files:

  8. MOPMAN

    MOPMAN TrainBoard Member

    1,429
    1
    23
    Cool. Another HO railroad in the works.
     
  9. Triplex

    Triplex TrainBoard Member

    3,214
    1
    44
    With your lower level and main level at those elevations, you won't be able to see very far back on the lower level.
     
  10. mtaylor

    mtaylor Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

    2,772
    185
    49
    When operating the lower level, I would be seated (stools with back support on wheels)
    30" is about the same height as a folding table (maybe a little lower). From the vantage point of being seated, do you still think that 15" of level separation would make viewing difficult?
     
  11. Powersteamguy1790

    Powersteamguy1790 Permanently dispatched

    10,785
    10
    115
    How are you going to see the middle and upper levels?
     
  12. mtaylor

    mtaylor Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

    2,772
    185
    49
    When operating the middle level, I will also be seated. While seated, 45" is at my eye level and 30" is about two inches above my knees while seated (like a table). What I will likely do is create some mock up benchwork in the attic and interact with it to determine if the heights need to be adjusted.

    Due to the pitch of the roof (ceiling) as I increase height, a loss of usable real estate occurs.

    Things that need to be tested is arm reach at the various heights. As planned now, both the 30" and 45" levels would be operated while seated. The 65" level would have to be operated while standing.
     
  13. mtaylor

    mtaylor Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

    2,772
    185
    49
    Hmmm,
    this just occured to me and now I understand the comments. If 45" is eye level to me while seated, how in the heck would I see the 30" level? :)

    I think I better do some testing :)
     
  14. mtaylor

    mtaylor Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

    2,772
    185
    49
    I just did some quick mock ups in the garage. I think that current planned heights will work. I can reach in 30" from the side without having to greatly lean into the layout area (I have ape arms). Also, while somewhat restrictive, I do not think that the 45" deck above will prohibit viewing of the 30" level. I will still do some more testing with structures and more sturdy test benchwork to verify.
     
  15. mtaylor

    mtaylor Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

    2,772
    185
    49
    I am in the process of a complete layout redesign. Concept stays the same as does the plan for three layout levels at 30", 45", and 65". I have decided to explore the option of doing away with the existing drop down stairs to the attic and adding outside stairs off of our 2nd story deck and installing a full size door onto the north wall of the attic. This will allow a more user friendly space for the attic overall. what this does prohibit though except maybe for the 65" level is a complete loop around the perimeter of the attic.

    I do have a question though. How much of a "sin" is it to introduce a turnout onto a helix. there will still be multiple helixes on the layout but the northwest corner of the layout I am thinking of installing a helix that serves the staging level (below 30"), the lower level (this is where the turnouts on the helix would exist) and the main level). A seperate helix would bring trains from the main level to the upper level.

    All helixes have an inner radius of 26" with an outside radius of 28", double tracked. Upward movement on the helix would be counterclockwise to use the 28" radius for most climbing operations on the helix (to reduce curve drag on the train).

    Attached is a PDF of the helix area in question.
     

    Attached Files:

  16. mtaylor

    mtaylor Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

    2,772
    185
    49
    I am bumping my own thread....I know....tacky :)

    I am wondering if anyone has any experience with using a turnout on a helix to allow trains to diverge off the helix (midway) to a layout level (wheter it is staging or sceniced). Am I asking for a operating nightmare or is this feasable. The radius of the outside track is 28" HO scale using a PECO curved turnout. The helix would also use code 100 track (transition track would be used to and from the helix itself).

    Would a better option be an oval helix (drawback here is a bigger footprint) to acomplish the goal of a turnout. I am not overly concerned with accessing the helix because there will never be a problem with the track or trains in the helix......JUST KIDDING. I plan to include removable backdrop that will essentialy be the end of the layout with the helix behind the removable backdrop. For really nasty problems, I would be required to duckunder the layout and come up within the helix itself. But for most issues, I should be able to reach inside the helix from designed maintenace panels (removalble backdrops and just plain fasica panels on the aisle side).

    For my design goals, I am certain that I will deploy helixes to transistion the layout levels despite their drawbacks. For my goals, the pros outweigh the cons. That being said, I need to make sure that I anticipate problem areas and try to design workable solutions to those problems to make the helix worthwhile (does this make sense?)

    My hunch is that this would work ok with a curved turnout. However the added stress to a train when a 2% grade is introduced on a 28" curve, I am not sure if this design will perform well.

    Thanks in advance for your input.
     
  17. mtaylor

    mtaylor Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

    2,772
    185
    49
    Layout Plan Update - Draft 5

    I am redesigning the layout plan to allow the installation of an outside door access to the attic to replace the current floor based drop door.

    Layout Levels remain as follows:
    Staging (11" below lower level - TCW level) 19" from floor with reduced width
    Lower (TCW) Level: 30" from floor
    Main Level (Marionapolis) 45" from floor
    Upper Level (Lake Wayne): 65" from floor

    the lower and main level will operated mainly while seated. I plan to have at least two pneumatic stools (chairs) for comfort and height adjustment.

    15" is a tight clearance between levels however based on the mock ups I made up, I think it is dooable. The entire lower level is rural farm land with two small towns with Taylorville being the larger of the two. The lower level is for the TCW with the possible BNSF coal train run through to off layout TCW customers.

    I am still working out the specific operating plans. In general, the TCW will provide local service to online industries including two grain elevators, LTCL freight station, Team Track for trans loading, and the largest traffic producer, an ethanol plant. The Ethanol plant is served daily. Also daily is a interchange with BNSF and CP on the Marionapolis turn. Limited passenger service is provided to Taylorville by Amtrak. Excusrion trains from time to time will also operate over the TCW.

    Attached is the revised plan for the lower level. The helix in the upper left corner is a three level helix that runs from staging, TCW level to Marionapolis. The helix on the right side of the layout only goes to staging.

    I will be redesigning the main and upper levels soon as time permits. Fall semester is starting soon so my hobby addiction will slow somewhat :)
     

    Attached Files:

  18. mtaylor

    mtaylor Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

    2,772
    185
    49
    Here is the new and revamped layout plan for the lower level - this is draft seven.

    What has been changed:
    1. Added a penisula to better use available floor space in attic.
    2. Scrapped idea of having three levels due to addition of penisula.
    3. Mainline run for lower level has been extended greatly with addition of penisula
    4. Helixes have been redesigned to be ovals as opposed to circles. This will allow me to use a standard Atlas #6 turnout on the helixes as opposed to a curved turnout which I feel will give me operation headaches in the future.

    Operations Vision: (a strange mixture of fantasy and reality).
    The lower level is owned by the TCW. All industries are served by the TCW. The right side helix represents east and will be the primary route to Marionapolis (Upper Level). Staging will also be accesable via this helix to represent towns and industries between Arnold (Plato, MN) and Marionapolis (Twin Cities...sort of) on TCW track and the east junction with BNSF towards Marionapolis.

    The Helix on the left side of the layout represents west and will be the westard route to staging representing towns and industries west of Taylorville (Glencoe, MN) and the west junctions with BNSF in Grantie Falls, MN and Appleton, MN

    The BNSF and UP will operate rail excursion trains from time to time (not regular scheduled service) to Taylorville. The BNSF also operates their Heritage Empire Builder to Taylorville when routed to Kansas City. Amtrak is considering of running a local passageger service between Montevideo, MN and Marionapolis, MN which via TCW and BNSF tracks.

    The BNSF also provides coal delivery service to a large sugar beet plant in Renville, MN (west of Taylorville, MN) using TCW tracks as part of an business agreement between TCW and BNSF.

    Primary traffic on this portion of the TCW is Grain, Ethanol, Distillers Dried Grain(DDG), Canned Food Products, Transloads, and Sugar. There is also LTCL freight and other non regular freight items from time to time.

    Motive power for the TCW:
    3 EMD GP30 locos
    2 EMD GP20 locos
    some leased equipment from BNSF from time to time (not including actual BNSF trains)

    Not all details for the towns have indluded in the plan at this stage, this will done from time to time later.

    As with all plans, this is all subject to change due either to an epiphany or a reality check.

    A revised layout plan for stagin and Marionapols will be posted as they are created.

    Here is a link of the actual service area map of the TCW and neighboring railroads in Minnesota that I used as inspiration and the basis of my mangled reality.
    http://www.tcwr.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/tcw-service-map.pdf

    Attached is the layout plan draft 7 for my TCW level.
     

    Attached Files:

  19. mtaylor

    mtaylor Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

    2,772
    185
    49
    I forgot to mention.
    The layout is currently designed to be operated mainly while seated. This will require a couple of comfortable and and adjustable stools with wheels. I have seen some nice ones with padded backs. As with all of this, testing and feasability will have to be tested.

    The upper level can be operated while standing which result in a helicopter view. However becasue this layout is going to be in an attic, the higher the bechwork, the narrower the available space.

    The lower level will have to operated while seated. While standing, observation of the lower level will be almost non-existant.

    Staging will be a pain as it will sit a mere 19" of the floor. The idea here is to have plenty of runthrough tracks to require minimal manual manipulation.....we will see how this really works :)

    Until I inherit a warehouse, these trade-offs will have to do. :)
     
  20. mtaylor

    mtaylor Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

    2,772
    185
    49
    Attached are the lower level and main level layout plans - Draft 7.

    Nothing really has changed for the Lower Level (TCW level).

    The main level is greatly different than from Draft 5. I will not cover all of the planned operations and how the layout will operate as there is allot going on.

    Rough idea of operations:
    The BNSF Marionapolis yard interchanges with TCW and UP. The yard and loco servicing is owned by BNSF with joint usage between BNSF and CP. BNSF is by far the the most active operator in Marionapolis.

    Canadaian Pacific and BNSF both serve the Dodge assembly plant, Open air Transload facility, and a large grain elevator.

    Canadian Pacific soley serves McCabe Brewery Company

    BNSF serves the Paper Mill, all Downtown Induestries and the Downtown Coal Generating Power Plant.

    BNSF and UP serve the Marionapols Tri - State Power plants with BNSF being the primary coal supplier.

    BNSF and UP provide Heritage fleet passenger service to the Amtrak station Downtown.

    Amtrak provides regular scheduled passenger service to the Amtrak station Downtown.

    Marionapolis Yard - Brief Summary:
    The track on the far left is the bi-directional single track main line and is kept open as much as possible. The next four tracks from the left are used mainly as arrival and departure tracks. However, depending on traffic congestion, these tracks can also be used for passing sidings and classification tracks. The remainder of the tracks are used mainly for train classification but also can be used as arrival / departure and less often as passing sidings depending on traffic congestion.

    I am in the process of drafting operating rules and schema for the layout that can be used by layout visitors (and myself when I forget). :)

    I am open to comments and questions. The big challenge with this layout plan is 1. Actually building it :) and I am still not 100% sure 15" will provide the desired clearance between the lower level and the main level. I have not operated with working mockups yet while seated. This is the next step.

    The other major challenge is other projects and cost. There are many many projects underway around the house that are very expensive (new roof, windows, siding, new shed, finish the inside of new garage). The layout space (attic) is need of major remodling (current estimate is between $5000 and $10,000. So it is possible that the benchwork will not actually start in 2010. The main goal for 2010 is to complete the attic remodel and start (not finish) the benchwork in 2010 starting with the two helix systems.

    Once the remodeling is done, a temporary setup is likely to be built for continued rolling stock tweaking.

    Overall I am very please with the current layout plan and while busy, I think it works well giving the heavy urban theme for the main level and more country theme for the lower level. With the layout plan pretty much complete (except for staging) I have been able to plan actual trains and operations schema for the layout.
     

    Attached Files:

Share This Page