I was going to post a quiz about which Hudson had the twin lens headlight, and asked Tom Gerbracht of the NYCSHS to comment, and he said it was 5414. Checked my photos, and gee whiz, here is this great big number plate between the headlight and NYC oval that said "5414". I guess that wouldn't have been much of a quiz. Now, Ron Morse has always been inquisitive about differences in Hudsons. How about sending in your observations about differences, even in the same locomotive that you have seen in photos. Ron is looking for a photo of a Hudson that has one set of Scullin disc drivers, one of Boxpok, and one of spokes. Ever seen that? Personally, I am intrigued by the number of different configurations of booster exhausts, some in front of the main stack, some behind, etc. Please send your own observations of differences. ------------------ http://www.pioneer.net/~fitzrr/ Member No. 508
Jim Here is one that I didn't notice until just a few years ago:Baker valve gear hangers on Hudsons.(I know that a bunch were built with Walscherts valve gear so I'm not counting them.)There are at lest three diferent shapes/styles of Baker hangers used on the Hudsons. My question is;why? Were there improvements made over the years-was the design different inside that we can't see or were some made by the Central to replace factory originals? If you look closely you see different"arching",different lengths and some have openings of different sizes and shapes. Just something else for you to look at. Ron Morse .
Ron, I don't know the answer to "why" the different hangers existed. We need Tom Gerbracht or Ori Siegel to answer that one. Just to illustrate some of the differences, I am posting photos of 5200, the FIRST Hudson, and 5446 late in her J-3 career. Disregard the small tender on 5200. It was very temporary. Both are from the collection of Harold K. Vollrath. ------------------ http://www.pioneer.net/~fitzrr/ Member No. 508
C'mon, guys. Make some comments about the differences in those two pictures, please! There is a discussion going on in the trainweb NYC forum about front ends on Hudsons. Some showed up late in their careers with flat front ends that resembled those on the L-4 Mohawks. Anyone have any photos of them? Fitz
One final invitation (no, make that a whimpering plea) to participate in NYC Quiz II. Did I scare you all away? It is difficult to moderate a forum with no traffic on it. Fitz OOOPS!! How did that get here? Does it help to get your attention? [This message has been edited by fitz (edited 25 January 2001).]
I don't know about those two funny looking blue engines, but the Hudsons sure did come a looong way with their tenders!
That is sure a fact. I don't know why the Central put that little four wheel truck tender behind the original Hudson, but as you can see from the J-3, they had progressed to the Pedestal type with 24 wheels by the end of steam. The blue engines are Lockheed F-104s, almost as old as steam engines. Just put 'em on to get some attention.
Now that I am registered, would like to post a comment re the photo of NYC #5446. Look carefully at the photo and you will see that this engine still has the pilot used when streamlined. Since most of the 20th Century Hudsons were destreamlined by March, 1947, this pic was taken after that date. Another reason for the early date is that the change in location of the reverse gear, which required a change in running board height, has not yet been made and this engine still has its original "straight as-built" running board, so my guess is 1947 (after March) to late 1948 as probable date of the photo.
Tom, as usual you are right on. Mr. Vollrath's notes on the back of that photo of 5446 say "Chicago, 8-47". Your keen eyes keep alerting me to things I haven't noticed, like the "step" cutout in the pilot that had to be there for the streamlining. The straight running board--changed to step when they went to outside reverse gear rigging? WELCOME ABOARD!
Jim Also note that the smokebox is much lighter than most Central engines at that time.Might have been "recently" out-shopped tho it does have a few miles worth of dirt on it.Looks more silver than graphite. Ron
Ron, you are right. I didn't even notice that. Getting pretty slipshod in noticing differences lately. Remember when we were discussing that hole in the pilot? I think Tom answered that one for us. By the way, Tom, why Hudson 5432? Does that particular one have a special significance to you? Fitz
I have a builder's plate from #5432. I don't think it was one of the better Hudsons (5422, 5435, 5437, 5440, 5445, 5449, and 5451 come to mind), as it was laid up early. As a matter of fact, I have a photo of it in service without its builder's plate!
Another comment re #5200 photo. I believe the early J1's had Walschaerts valve gear, not Baker. (I can't remember when the change was made to Baker on new locos, but it is listed in Staufer's book "Thoroughbreds". J-1c or d.) Eventually, all Hudsons with Walschaerts were modified to the Baker gear. Reason was that, although valve events were more precise with the Walschaerts, a "step" had a tendency to wear in the linkage and hurt the performance. Baker could be brought to new specs by just replacing the pins. The original #5200 tested higher for drawbar HP than J1e #5334 (I think that's the no.),possibly due to the Walschaerts and the use of the smaller 8 wheel tender.
Tom, 5200 sure had Walschaerts as built. Ron Morse has pointed out that the hanger for that gear was in place on some Hudsons after conversion to Baker gear. At this point I want to make a speech (too many buds?). Tom, I am so glad that you are here participating. Ron, Roger, et al, I thank you for being here. The New York Central was one of the greatest railroads in the world, and without your contributions the history may just die. I don't want that to happen. Back to the intent of this thread, OK here are some hints: Valve gear, pilots, drive wheel types, exhausts for booster, feedwater heaters, sand domes, classification lights, and I'll stop there, many more. Should I send in more fighter airplanes?
Yes Jim,you had better have another Bud...I DID NOT say that the Walshaert hanger was in place after Baker change..couldn't happen.Careful or I'll come up there in a couple of weeks and hit you with a wet noodle!!! Also,I believe that I read somewhere that one or two Hudsons had the Walschaert until they were scrapped.Most were replaced in the 1940's as they were in the shop for major work,I believe that the first ones built new with Baker came out on the J-1c's for the Michigan Central in 1929.(Staufer in "Thoroughbreds" contradicts himself and also says J-1d's were first!)
Well, heck Ron, that hanger looks the same as the Walschaerts in some of the later photos of Hudsons. Only difference is the link. Maybe they just moved the bolts? I don't think any Hudsons survived with W gear. Staufer has a photo of 5200 with Baker gear.\ Fitz
Well heck Jim,look at page 76 of your well worn Thoroughbreds. The top photo of 8204 shows the Walschaert,the middle shows 5276 with Baker and the last photo shows 5391 with a different Baker frame that looks a LITTLE like a Walschaert.Perhaps that is the type Baker you are being confused about. That page gives a good compairisom of some of the types of hangers I was talking about. Lets both have a Bud....
Ron, you are absolutely right. I looked at page 76, and that hanger on 5391 is what made me believe that Walschaerts still existed on Hudsons late in their careers. Now, someone please tell me about the various booster exhaust stacks.
