Precision Masters history?

christoph Sep 26, 2009

  1. christoph

    christoph TrainBoard Member

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    Long ago I bought a lone Precision Masters Ortner 5-bay hopper that is still a nice model. Recently I found some covered hopper kits (3000 cuft and 4700 cuft) on ebay.de, and could not resist.
    The 3000 cuft covered hoppers were a mix of some Red Caboose and a Precision Masters kit, so the history is obvious there. The 4700 cuft covered hoppers seem to have also moved to Red Caboose. But what happened to the Ortner hopper? Is this the one done by Trainworx today?
    My main reason for asking is that I would like to replace the plain load with a better looking one by Hay Bros..
    I tried Google but could not find much information about the history of Precision Masters and their models. What I found was that they had invented the Unimate couplers.

    Just being curious.... :)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 26, 2009
  2. pmpexpress

    pmpexpress TrainBoard Member

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    Though I do not recall when the die-work was acquired by Red Caboose, during the 1990s, Bob Beyers' Precision Masters produced the following N-Scale models:

    42' Fishbelly Side Flat Cars

    Ortner 55' 5-Bay Hoppers

    Pullman Standard 55' 3-Bay Covered Hoppers

    37' 2-Bay Covered Hoppers

    40' Steel Refrigerator Cars

    40' Wood Sheathed Refrigerator Cars
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 26, 2009
  3. christoph

    christoph TrainBoard Member

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    Thank you for the information. Just interesting to know a bit of the history here.
    I just now saw that all Red Caboose models are now also listed on the respective Intermountain pages, e.g. under "hoppers". I did not know or forgot that the Ortner hopper is still offered by Red Caboose.
     
  4. Rossford Yard

    Rossford Yard TrainBoard Member

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    I switched to N in 1990 and recall buying some of the covered hoppers by PM very early on, so they date to at least then. Besides the cars, they had the non operating knuckle couplers for sale separately for unit trains.
     
  5. GaryHinshaw

    GaryHinshaw TrainBoard Member

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    Christoph:

    Are you sure you mean an Ortner 4-bay hopper? As pmpexpress notes, Precision Masters made a 5-bay hopper and Red Caboose picked that model up. Don't know about any 4-bay model though, sorry.

    -Gary

    P.S. Since Red Caboose recently turned over distribution to Intermountain, their web site has been pretty much wiped clean of historical data. Fortunately the Wig Wag site has some useful pages, including a page on the Red Caboose Ortner releases.
     
  6. christoph

    christoph TrainBoard Member

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    Gary, you are right, I mean 5-bay hopper, it is just the one shown on the Intermountain page. It is the Norfolk and Western version.
     
  7. haybros

    haybros TrainBoard Member

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    Our load for the Precision Masters Ortner and our load for the Red Caboose Ortner are the same load.... They are the 3501-xx series of loads.
     
  8. BoxcabE50

    BoxcabE50 HOn30 & N Scales Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    Precision Masters last car was released in 1997.

    Boxcab E50
     
  9. James Costello

    James Costello TrainBoard Member

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    And the FMC 4700' covered hopper....
     
  10. pmpexpress

    pmpexpress TrainBoard Member

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    Oops: Great catch. Lacking any expertise in identifying modern hoppers (i.e., short of counting the body ribs), I failed to recognize that the FMCs were a different make and class.
     
  11. Gats

    Gats TrainBoard Member

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    Further to James' note, the PS2-CD's were the 16-rib 4740's (the only one in N) and 18-rib 4750's.
    The 4750's I believe to be the NAHC copy of the PS design sold as kits to Ingalls Shipping and Berwick Forge and Foundary (plus another) for construction and onselling.
     
  12. cfritschle

    cfritschle TrainBoard Member

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    Neville,

    PM had three 3 bay covered hoppers. The first one was labeled as a 4750 cu. ft. car and had 18 ribs. It was similar to a Pullman Standard design, but the roof and steps were wrong. The copyright on this one is 1989. Red caboose retooled this car to better match the sides of the PS design, but they did not fix the roof. The second one was the 4740 cu. ft. car with 16 ribs, and initially it used the same roof as the 4750, but other than that, it was a pretty good match for the PS design. And the last one was the FMC that James pointed out.

    I had a conversation with Bob Beyers at the 1994 NMRA National Convention in Portland. He liked my grain train which had a bunch of his cars in it, and he gave me an example of a new, flatter roof he was coming out with for the 16 rib, 4740 cu. ft. cars, which made them a better match for the PS design.

    Carter
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 28, 2009
  13. pmpexpress

    pmpexpress TrainBoard Member

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    Carter,

    Thanks for the Precision Masters hopper car primer. Modeling the 1960's - 1970's Clinchfield, I am not familiar with these modern hopper styles.

    Hope to return the favor by posting some defunct N-Scale vehicle model manufacturer and products data that has been sought by a number of the members of your Yahoo group.
     
  14. cfritschle

    cfritschle TrainBoard Member

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    Neville,

    We need to give Gary credit too. He got his post in while I was in the basement looking through my boxes of covered hoppers trying to find the date on the bottom of the 4750 cu. ft. car.

    And, I will look forward to the N scale vehicle model manufacturer information.

    Carter
     
  15. pmpexpress

    pmpexpress TrainBoard Member

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    Gary,

    Please accept my humble apology for failing to acknowledge the information that you have graciously contributed to this thread. Thanks for your detailed response.

    As I am not familiar with a few of the abbreviations in your post, could you clarify the following for me:

    1. PS2-"CD'S"

    2. NAHC

    How were the PS design kits shipped to Ingalls Shipping and Berwick Forge and Foundry (i.e., crated parts, or bulk parts that were placed on flat cars, or in gondolas)?
     
  16. Pete Nolan

    Pete Nolan TrainBoard Supporter

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    Bob Byers, the founder of Precision Masters, has written us a note clarifying the history.

     
  17. Gats

    Gats TrainBoard Member

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    No need for apology, though I should myself for this late reply.

    PS2 was the code for Pullman Standard's covered hopper designs. PS1 was their boxcars.
    The CD suffix means the hoppers are Center Discharge, ie discharge between the rails along the centreline of the cars.

    NAHC I believe to be North American Hopper Corporation (or similar).

    As for how they were shipped, or what exactly was shipped, I have no idea, sorry.
     
  18. N&W

    N&W TrainBoard Member

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    This may or may not be of interest to you but the Ortner 5 bay (PM/RC) in N&W lettering is fantasy.

    Mark
     
  19. Charlie Vlk

    Charlie Vlk February 5, 2023 In Memoriam

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    I don't know what modifications Red Caboose made to the former Precision Masters cars, but IIRC the PM Flatcar was completely retooled. I have an example of both the PM and Red Caboose cars somewhere in my basement.
    Charlie Vlk
     

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