What were we talking about? Oh yeah, pricing out of a hobby. I just got back into the hobby after 20 years out. Yeah, there was sticker shock but i got over it. IMO, the BLI locos with sound are reasonably priced. Other products are similar. Fer instance, the 2-8-0 at about $350 Estimate: $100 for DCC decoder with excellent sound and motor control $50 installation and set for that prototype. $250 for brass engine quality detail. Not brass material so what? the detail is there. $50 for excellent can motor and drive train, which is not in a brass engine. Wait, that's $450, a hundred more than the BLI price. How about an Athearn starter set? $150 is reasonable for a few cars, engine, and loop of track. A 'cheap' Athearn DCC ready diesel at $65 is about twice the price of 20 years ago, with much more detail, runs better, and DCC ready, not possible back then. Consider the wooden car kits from the 1950's. Some boxes have the original stickers of $2.50 to $5. That compares well with a $25 RTR very detailed modern boxcar. Ya want a 100 cars in a yard, it's gonna cost you, then and now.
"Fer instance, the 2-8-0 at about $350" One of many reasons I am NOT into steam. I know...my lose...yadda yadda yadda...so on...so forth. Do you same people expect a newbie to be able to afford such a locomotive ? Do you really think that they can't think of at least a hundred different things that they could buy with that same 350.00 that would give them more joy then playing with a locomotive that they cant afford to buy cars for or even the track and associated hardware/software to run it on ?? Diesels are creeping up in price too. Run of the mill freight cars are reaching 35.00 + EACH. There is NO sacred ground. The point being...YES..we (collectively) are demanding more and pricing ourselves out of a hobby. JMHO YMMV
What you are referring to is HO stuff. This is the N scale forum. Apples to Apples: oranges to oranges and don't mix the two.
Doug was referring to HO stuff. BLI never made a 2-8-0 in N scale. Furthermore, if they announced one it would take them at least ten years to actually produce it. In HO modelers tend to have a lot fewer engines and rolling stock than we in N scale. So price increases do not have the same overall impact on one's budget as they do in N scale. N scalers tend to model the 'big picture' rather than individual items. Maybe this is the result of the Ntrak effect where lashups of engines pulling prototypical length trains is quite common but is a rarity in HO. An N scale 100 car unit train of Atlas 90 ton hoppers would cost $2,000 at today's prices. Even so the Accumate couplers would have to be changed out because they have a tendency to fail (uncouple) around the 25 car limit. So add in ten bulk packs of MT trucks and couplers and that is another $500. So $2500 invested and we still don't have locomotives. There is not much of a difference in price between a HO car and an N scale car. The HO is a couple of bucks more. But you won't see 100 car unit trains in HO as you do in N scale. A typical layout might have trains of ten to fifteen cars, maybe twenty but rarely more. Twenty cars at $25 per car is only $500. Add in 2 bulk packs of KD #5 couplers for another $32.00 and your total cost is therefore much less. So price increases in HO are more easily absorbed by the individual modeler than they are in N scale.
I think there are still good values in N scale. The latest examples I bought were the Bowser GLa hoppers at $14.15 each, Bowser H21a quad hopper $ 13.39 each and the Broadway 4 pocket ARA hoppers at $16.00 or so. I really like the cars and they are not terribly expensive. Randy
The last BLMA car i got was a trinity reefer and it wobbled like a drunk man on saturday night so i am not so sure the quality has gotten better for $25.00
Every time a new item is announced or arrives at the e-tailer/LHS... I experience 'sticker shock'. Now-a-days the price of even the 'ordinary' mediocre quality model railroad paraphernalia is a decision for me on 'just how much' do I need it. I just looked at some really nice Athearn 89' Autoracks with the Whitehead & Kales rack. It would be in my 'later' years era of the mid-1960's and the Burlington and the Illinois Central racks would look great. At $30 discounted... I just couldn't pull the trigger on the purchase. I couldn't make myself spend the money... and I can't explain why... other than I just don't see the value in the products despite the nice work done by Athearn on these. The problem is becoming worse for me as I look towards retirement in the next five or six years. I guess I harp on some models a lot... like the NCL passenger consist... because I probably won't be able to afford one once I retire. I do have a lot of stuff I can sell... but... who knows what I'll get for it. It may be the only way to subsidize new purchases in 10 years.
We seem to be divided on those who willing to buy the stuff and those who have reached their limit as far as justifying any further purchases. So here is a novel idea. Maybe we can lease our model RR stuff. The big guys do it so it is prototypical.
For a few years now I have been downsizing by selling off excess stuff. Each sale I have re-plowed the money made on those sales into turnouts and smaller loco motives that I wanted. So not only did I accomplish my goal of a leaner more manageable layout and power roster but re-plowing the monies gained from the excess sales certainly helped blunt my outlay of funds from my wallet. And my smaller power roster will be easier to maintain and I guarantee that I will get just as much enjoyment from my smaller roster, if not more, than the folks who have 100s of locos. I am still of the opinion, and always will be, that a lot of folks have more than their layouts will support. Of course there is always the collector. My freight cars vastly outnumber my locomotives and are now based on having enough to have cars sitting on sidings at industries to interchange with other cars. I have enough cars to populate a small yard and cars waiting to be loaded aboard the car float. Since I model a transition era my trains are short. I am not trying to model transcom 100 plus car trains. Just enough locos to power those short consists on grades double headed. A couple more locos at the service facility and a few dedicated switchers at spots. A leaner more compact modeling but just as much fun at a lower price. I started small and lean and somehow managed to get large and unwieldy at some point and have now returned to whence I started. My wallet thanks me. When I first switched to N scale the focus was not on acquiring motive power but on the cars. And a lot of those cars bought cheap are the fodder today to populate my yards and industry spurs and make up train consists. Every so often I found the highly detailed IM cars and MT cars for good prices. Those $2.50 and $3.00 cars are still with me today along with the more highly detailed cars. As far as my most recent purchases, and for future purchases, the internet has become a useful tool in finding the affordable prices and I actively comparision shop now.While my certain discount dealer on the East Coast has prices under a lot of dealers I found even better than them by going direct to Japan. By often 1/3rd to 1/2 lower in price and I was able to increase my purchasing power. And I waited on some things until I had enough to make a decent order reducing shipping costs. Of course in my case since I became a freelance modeler I can just order what ever blows my dress up and not be concerned with roadname or prototype. For me it is just a matter of replacing the roadname with my road and leaving the rest as is paint and all. A far cheaper alternative and just as enjoyable.
Nope, George. I expect newbies will start with a starter set and circle of track like I did. And you. "It started as a 30x36 piece of plywood with a LL UP train set." I wish the images of your RR were still available in your original post N vs. HO scale - same inflation and price rise vs detail applies As anyone gets deeper into ANY hobby, bicycling, scuba, drones, RC cars, music - they will spend lots more on better equipment. Hobbies can be expensive. For a long time I enjoyed model railroading by reading online articles and making paper buildings from free CAD software 'cuz I could not afford a box of flextrack. Now I can, and more. If a person loves doing anything they will find ways to pursue it.
They are there...just in my Media Files. The links where broken http://www.trainboard.com/highball/index.php?media/users/mtntrainman.9898/&page=7
With my start going from HO to N scale it was with an 0-4-0 tank engine and three Bmann 65 foot passenger cars and one caboose and several freight. I don't remember the size of the layout but it was small. My HO stuff I had given to a friend. Styrene siding was cheap and the parts like windows and doors were inexpensive so I started building my own structures. Even my own boxcars from scribed styrene car siding. A pack of Detail Associates car parts were about a $1.50 to $2.00. Living in an apartment with my young family of 4 kids and my Wife a stay at home Mother. A new career had started so I wasn't high on the payscale and everything was budgeted. Used to be at least two model railroad shows a year in the area sometimes four. I used to go to those shows with a strict budget and I used to walk those shows first, keeping my wallet firmly in my pocket. Found were the best deals where on that pass through and went back to what I needed the most and had money for. Always left with stuff that was passed up because of lack of funds. Wait until another time.
