Gee Loren, put me on the spot ) Yep, I got one of the first shots I suspect so I can't speak to the production unit. The shell has the texture of the other large castings he's done so they are not smooth like somthing injection molded. Any RP process is still a long way off from producing something that looks like it came out of hard tooling...so if that's the expectation, you will not like what you get. Even MarkV stuff has it's limitations...the Reefer I got was warped on one side and leaking fluid rendering it unusable. This happens when you are on the cutting edge of a technology. To the model...well, the cab on mine is solid so you paint the windows...not sure about the fan on the top of the hood...I think that's supposed to be round not oval. There are a lot of layer lines on the roof that cannot be covered with putty and primer. The doors and details on the sides are very soft. I put some paint on it and it covered well. Folks who are doing dark colored engines will fair better than lighter colors. I shot mine with some SP Brown and the color rendered the surface looking like mini sandblasted Redwood. The railings are etched out of stainless and are very clean but a bit over stated in their width . Again, I don't want to throw water on this project because it will end up in selling more of my chassis. I have a very early shot, it could have been done in a low resolution mode. Once someone gets the real item, it will be interesting to see how they fair. I checked out their site and am troubled that the railing does not come with the shell. At $50.00 I wouldn't want to have to spend more $$$ to finish the engine. Hopefully Jim will rethink that aspect of the product...or pivot and produce shells that don't require railing. There's plenty of call for them. Joe
a reply from searails says: "Regarding the hand rails; their price is being evaluated now, and you [because i made the purchase] will receive a direct quotation before they are posted on the web page." so handrails are in the works, and hopefully will be disclosed soon. i'll give you all a report when i recieve the products, as i'm sure others will want to do also. dave f.
OK, That's along the lines of the info I wanted. So, for me, if it's the low resolution RP, it would be a case of get a shell, and sand it smooth. Drill out the fan and superglue bathroom faucet screen in place, raster some .004" peel and stick plastic for door panels, vents, and side details. Bend wire grabs and attach, and get some Detail Associate N Scale horns. Cut off the stuff that represents the fuel tank and do a styrene glue up to the MTL tank. We really want aftermarket shells, yes we do, but hey, they really do need to be smooth, and detailed. I know there are some RP machines out there with high resolution. Print Resolution X-axis: 600 dpi: 42 µm Y-axis: 600 dpi: 42 µm Z-axis: 1600 dpi: 16 µm
Again I don't know what the final product will look like, but if you zoom in on the Baldwin Shark you can get an idea of what you are up against. Frankly, if you are pedestrian in this hobby and want something that looks ok...this might do the trick, but for those looking to push the envelope...I don't think this technology...at least as it has been applied so far...is going to cut the mustard. I know there are over the top systems but they are less geared to do the kind of surface detail we expect in Z and more towards making parts dimensionally correct. Even the Z stuff I got from Mark had it's issues when it came to capturing fine details and consistant line weights...frankly Z is a tough customer in that respect. Joe MTL
I don't know if these will help, or not. These pictures are from Searails' first attempt, BEFORE making the changes suggested by Rob Kluz. The pictures are pretty small. Dan S.
I am in this one with Joe. Somehow my name is all over this! LOL! I received a sample of the Alco shell from Jim. First, impression... it is a an Alco Rs! But, it was far too large to be Z. In fact the shell was closer to N scale. You can see the size in the photos Dan posted. Look at the trucks. The shell is greatly hangs over the trucks. From my measurements, it is about 50% too large. I also found the coupler pocket to be too small to fit an MTL coupler box. The concept is dead one, but the dimensions off. I also mentioned by concern for trucks. AZL and MTL GPs booth come with truck mounted couplers. The shell is ready for body mounts. For those who use the AZL GP7, the coupler will pop right off. but if you use the MTL GP, prepare to do some work on the trucks to make them work. Frankly, an AZL GP7 may be a better starting point just for this reason. I think the details are okay. I would like to see more refinement, but there are limits to RP, especially in the dpi. I would recommend very light coats of paint to make it work. As Joe stated, there are lines on the shell and some sanding and smoothly will be necessary. Joe is also right one when it comes to capturing details with RP. I have not seen the final product, nor a sample with handrails. I definitely would look at these shells as a starting point. I like what Robert is saying. Many will want to add details, BLMA fans and such are a good start. I think those with the talents of Robert, Dave F, Gerd, Joe and others will be able to bring these shells to life. Rob
Z scale Engine shells The engine shells that will be shipped on April 13th are production units, not pre-production evaluation models provided for comment and critique to Rob Kluz, Eric Smith, and MR/MRN/and RMC for review. The shells have the following; 1. Surface The production accuracy is .004". 2. Strength of Materials The production material is stronger and more durable than any previous SEARAILS product - by lots! (Thermoset Acrylic, not printed ceramic) 3. Dimensional Accuracy All dimensions are adjusted according to comment received regarding perception of proportion. They appear to be correctly proportioned in height and width to other Z scale rolling stock. The length is correct for the general range of ALCO Road Switchers, as is the wheel base as provided by the Micro-Trains Line Co.'s powered chassis 4. Fit The shells fit on both (maybe the same?) Micro-Trains Line Co.'s GP powered chassis. (Like a glove - in fact, you might find the term "press fit" to apply here). 5. Accessories a. Etched stainless handrails will be available for purchase in the very near future. b. No trucks or sideframes accompany the shell. c. No couplers are provided, a mounting "pocket" with a pre-drilled hole is provided in the Pilot Plow. (The shell will correctly fit powered chasis without their truck-mounted couplers attached). 6. Returns Our clients need to be satisfied, and to enjoy the use of our products. Returns are accepted for unaltered goods within 15 days from the shipping date. There is a finance cost to SEARAILS from PayPal for any purchase, and the first 25 units are not being charged for shipping. US$45.00 will be credited to any client who wishes to return our unaltered product in its original packaging for any reason. Thanks to all of you who have commented and for bringing these issues to our attention. Jim, Jared, KAT, Larry, Chris and Nancy
Joe, Not trying to put you on the spot, even though you look so good on it ) If I had a shell then I would have given a fair and honest evaluation as I saw it, but no shell in my sweaty hands. I hope this project does succeed beyond anyone's expectations. I think all who know the quality we Z scalers like and expect will agree that "also ran" just won't cut it for most of the modelers. We are sometimes paying pretty hefty dollars for our Z items and I think we are willing to continue to do so......as long as we get our 100 pennies worth for the dollar we spend. Loren
If you are talking about the pictures that I posted, I only have the pictures. BUT, as I said, these pictures are of shells made BEFORE Searails made the corrections, so their size is irrelevant. Dan S.
It was more of a general question any one could answer. If they made corrections from the shells in the photos I think they will be close to correct. I guess I'll order one up and see for myself in a few weeks.
I'm sure Jim got all the issues discussed correct...again we are looking at very early stuff and in no way...no way reflects on the end quality of the products Jim produces. What we can't loose site of is that he is pushing the envelope with a process that wasn't designed for the application. So there will be problems and successes...trust me, I'm the king of making things do stuff it wasn't designed for. If you don't try...you don't know. And for that Jim is to be lauded. Cheers Joe MTL
What's the issue finish-wise with our products? I am aware of the limitations of the technology and the materials but thus far we haven't had negative feedback regarding surface finish.
And you STILL have not had any negative feedback, rather Positive if you read it carefully. I am just making the point that whatever machines use that orange material seem to have better finish than the clear translucent stuff. My point with Robbman is, offer more info that just a "not Objet", yet not telling that it's an Envisiontec machine. My clarification is meant to convey that whatever machine is printing that Orange material, is doing a MUCH better job that the clear translucent gritty material machines, and that you can send the .stl (or whatever that file extension is) type file to someone who has a better machine and get better results for us. Which brings me to another question Mark, since you are here defending your product... Why have YOU not produced Z Scale shells for us? Let's see some shells! Let's see some low nose GP9 shells, Some non dynamic brake shells, some winterization hatch shells, etc? How about different cabs with different window arrangements too?
How about a GP20 low nose!!! YEAH!!! :we2-jimlad: Sorry... Robert got me too excited. :tb-embarrassed:
You stated M4D was using Objet material, which duly implied that he's using an Objet, I was simply letting you know that was not the case. You went back and found the correct information... badda-bing, badda-boom... my point made.
Read it carefully? Why the *^&% would I do that! :tb-biggrin: The orange in our material is there because the light that cures it is blue. It's essentially a dye that prevents penetration of the blue light beyond that layer being cured. That's the intention but it can all go wrong.... The material is an acrylic - very similar in composition to plexiglas or perspex (both trade names for polymethyl methacrylate). It's non-porous and has a fine surface finish because of the optical method of curing. The image is generated by a DLP and delivered to the curing plane with lenses as a complete layer rather than using a scanning laser (which SLA does) Yeah, that Robbman guy loves an argument:tb-rolleyes: When he gets to my age he will have run out of energy. Several reasons: 1. I know my material. While it is good for boxcars, covered hoppers etc which don't have a lot of thin unsupported detail when it comes to locomotive shells with thin pilots subject to impacts, derailments etc I don't regard it as entirely suitable. It would end in tears. The better approach would be to use the RP to produce a master. Resin shells with etched detail would be the result. I don't do resin casting. With the money I have tied up in hardware it makes more sense to concentrate on that than a low-capital casting operation. I supply a really good caster with masters for HO stuff but it's not my product range. To send masters to Canada for casting, shipping back to NZ then to customers in the US makes no sense. 2. Locomotive shells take a lot more effort than rolling stock to develop. There are numerous tolerance and fit issues. The returns on rolling stock for the effort expended are better. 3. I only want to offer close-to-scale stuff. 4. Z scale locos are much more expensive than N scale. Take Atlas N scale shells for example. They cost very little from the Atlas spares department. My take is that the average modeller is OK with cutting up a $12 shell as the basis for a kitbash. In fact Robbman and I used to do it with great gusto. There is no equivalent in Z. My take is that would limit the market for conversion kits much more than it does in N scale. As an aside, I really admire the Atlas approach to spares. It encouraged my to buy more of their locos. I switched to N scale from Maerklin HO so the price contrast is stark. 5. A workload of between 60 and 80 hours a week as a contract engineer for the steel and (fullsize) railway industries and a family (all females!!!) leaves little time for developing new models. Having said all that, I am hopeful that AZL's pre-anounced "budget" GP38-2 that is on the way is the platform on which to base a whole bunch of long hood (and short hood) conversions so that we can have GP40-2s, GP50s, GP39s, GP49s and other variants of GP38-2s. I may also look into the pre-dash 2 stuff as well but first off will be replicating the items we offer in N scale. Right. That's done. Now back to my tax matters and figuring out how much the check to the New Zealand department of Inland Revenue should be, and lest some of you come back with quips about profiteering from modelmaking...most of it was from other sources!
As someone interested in the ALCO RS3, I was wondering if anyone has ordered and received their shells from Searails yet? Thanks, John
i've ordered, but shells don't ship until April 13, according to the email reply after ordering. if you order early (enough) shipping is free. i think they are only making 50 (or so), and from there they will be on to the next thing. i hope they are good -- they are the only game in town for RS3(or any RS in Z). i'll let you know what i find when they get here (unless they arrive the week i'm away). hopefully, if they are on target with their delivery date, i will have it to comment on. dave f.
Since I model GN and SP&S, both of whom had RS3s, I went ahead and ordered a shell. Curious as to how smooth the surface is. John
