Thanks guys, you're a great help I have another newbie question: when a train arrives at its end location, what happens with the caboose? I imagine the locomotive parks its train backwards on a side track and goes off to the turntable, after which another locomotive goes to mess about with the freight cars, that don't need to be turned. But then the caboose: is it turned, or does it just travel the other way backwards?
Not sure what kind of ruler you have Wolfgang. My Blackstone engines never exceed 23 cm, even including couplers! That is, not even the one with the large snowplow.
Your post is called Silly Shay question. Here is an even sillier answer. How about a Shay that doesn't exactly have a gauge for the distance between the rails because it doesn't necessarily need to use rails. The picture doesn't show it very well, but this Shay I found at the W.T.Carter & Brother Lumber Co. in Camden Texas in 1968 has bell-shaped wheels. Apparently it was designed to run on logs set at track gauge distance. The curvature of the tread also allowed it to settle down to the spot where it could also run on regular rails, but probably not very fast. Well, fast was not a keynote of Shays, was it? Now, then this would be interesting to model, but how can you make realistic looking wood logs that are also conductive for electrical pickup? I warned you this was going to be a Silly Shay answer.
Haha, awesome. That is a silly Shay indeed. Not going to make it thát hard on myself though Any thoughts on the caboose question?
Here's another question in return... A passenger train would consist of an B-M-X (baggage-mail-express) car, followed by a coach, and then an open platform parlor car. The mail compartment usually had to be at the front of the train. Similarly, the open platform always had to be on the tail end. You can see such a ng train here: http://www.johnsonsdepot.com/crumley/images/tour2b/cyazaela1.jpg or 00008429 So the question isn't limited to cabooses, but also the entire passenger trains! Frequently, an entire train would be turned on wye or a balloon track. Some cabooses were turned, some weren't. The D&RGW long cabooses usually seemed to get turned. The C&S cabooses didn't appear to be turned all that often. Additionally, most NG terminals didn't have enough business to justify a separate engine for switching...so the road engine would frequently have to handle it at most NG terminals. Michael
Small update: I've received my copy of the Narrow Gauge & Short Line Gazette from the States today, featuring the 'Clear Creek & Pacific' layout, which has been my inspiration. I also got Brunk's 'Up Clear Creek On The Narrow Gauge' (which, to be honest, is a bit dated and too detailed for my needs at the moment), and have these on order: Railway Modelling: The Realistic Way, by Iain Rice Landscape Modelling, by Barry Norman Shelf Layouts for Model Railroads, by Iain Rice Approach to Model Railway Layout Design: Finescale in Small Spaces, by Iain Rice American Narrow Gauge Railroads, by George Hilton Not a bad start for studying I hope. Haven't decided on what to model exactly just yet. I'm taking my time. Anything from a small shelf in N-scale in any steamy theme (or perhaps early diesel?) to a bigger modular HO(n3) layout is attractive, so we'll just read and see what catches my fancy the most.
Back on the Shay subject: What would you say about the following three Shay offers currently on Ebay? United Scale PFM Keystone kit Worthy models? Reasonable price? The kit would need a motor, are those somewhat easily available? How about DCC-compatibility (ie, how hard is it to make them DCC-capable)? Thanks!
Hi Mattun, PFM has always made good stuff and has been in the business for 40+ years. This PFM model is an older model. I'm not impressed with the amount of solder visible but this was typical at the time. The motor is also visible in the cab. However, you may be able to get this for a good price since it's currently starting at $100. The United model is I think way over priced at $600. The finish looks shabby and I don't like the spark arrester on the stack. The mesh is way too large. However, the motor is well hidden in the rear coalbox and water tank. It also appears to have sound. The Keystone kit will need a lot of work to clean the parts and assemble. There are many motor suppliers out there though I don't have any sources offhand. It is also lacking trucks which will require some skill to adapt commercially available truck kits to it. But for the starting bid of $30 it may suit you just fine. Regarding DCC - I am not a good source of info on that so hopefully others can help you out there.
For DCC, the biggest concern is momentary shorts. They don't cause much of a problem with DC, but are very detrimental to DCC. For instance, rolling through a turnout, wheels can sometimes cause a momentary short which is overcome by the momentum of the locomotive. With DCC, it can cause the decoder to give up its spirit through the famed puff of smoke that tells you it's dead. Michael
Had some time off, and produced a trackplan for my source of inspiration, modified to include a reverse loop. This is one of the options I'm considering. The original is set in 1920s Colorado, and is basically a switchback mining track linked to a mainline. The mainline follows a creek (this creek is forked in the original, with the fork blocked by a beaver dam). Bottom right has a small town, from where the mining track goes up and up to bottom left, where the mine is. Measurements are metric system, sorry Pros: It's plain stealing a plan, that's proven to work; Simple plan; A lot of bridges; Future expansion easy. Cons: It's fairly large, not sure if I can find the room for it; Big project for the first time; Reverse loop under the rest of the layout is a bit tricky; It's a copy of something done before, though I think that's actually not a bad idea for a first time. It'll be unique anyway, cause it won't have the same builders . So that's one of the options. I've also received my logging book, so I'll have a read through that and think about other options. I intend to have about 3 in the end. Something like this one, a logging variant (somewhat smaller), and an even smaller shelf set-up, which could be either HOn3 or N, and any setting really. More to follow!
Mattum, I've noticed that many of the excellent railroads here in Cincinnati consist of modules which are installed into layouts...the mainline is frequently integral to the layout. I'd recommend starting off with some practice dioramas...perhaps ones to integrate into the dream layout. If you construct it in phases, it won't be as daunting. As a footnote, since you are from the far side of the pond... You caught that Harry Brunk models the Colorado & Southern. Are you aware of what two roads made of the NG portion of the C&S? They were the Colorado Central (Clear Creek) and the famed Denver, South Park, & Pacific. As my name and sig state, I'm a DSP&P modeler. Here are links to photos of both: http://narrowgauge.org/ngc/html/excursion6/tkc-colorado-central-rr.html http://narrowgauge.org/ncmap/ted/dspphoto.html Michael
Hi Mattun, I have been reading over this thread about the Shay Engine and your two questions. I haven't really seen an answer to part 2 of your first post. My option as to why Bachmann came out with the 3 truck HO Shay and not a HOn3 Shay may be due to the much larger number of folks working in HO. The number of modelers working in HOn3 has to be very low compared to the number working in HO. A second benefit with the HO version and one that would generate additional sales $$ would be a Shay Engine that could be "Kit-Bashed" into an On30 Shay. You can buy a kit to use with the HO Bachmann Shay chassis that turns it into a 2-truck On30 scale Shay. #255 Silver City Sidewinder, Gilpin-style Shay (On30) [255] - $89.95 : BOULDER VALLEY MODELS, The Art of On30 Railroading! I don't think I saw any reference to the MDC HOn3 Shay. They came in Kit form in HOn3 for a 2-Truck and a 3-Truck Shay and some new ones are showing up RTR made in China. This is not a very easy kit to build but can still be found on eBay. Their is a person selling what he calls a Semi- Shay Kits for a 2-Truck Shay in both HO and HOn3. The kits uses MDC parts with the running part assembled and test run. You then need to finish the kit. I have 2 of these and they both run well out of the box. The Semi-Kit comes with a new Can Motor and all the North West Short Line - replacement parts for the MDC Shay. The Semi-Kit cost $200. Motor and Drive line installed for you and test run before it ships. This is what it looks like out of the box. You can contact David Hoffman by mail at 8682 U.S. Hwy. 61 North, Woodville, MS 39669-3502. USA. The Shay is one of my favorite locomotives and my favorite geared locomotive. I have 4 of the Keystone Shay kits, 2 HO and 2 HOn3. They are the hardest to add a motor to if you can find the motor kit as they were made as a static engine. I have 2 motor kits for the Keystone Shays. If their is a Keystone Shay on eBay at this time watch what it sells for. You may be shocked to see what the final price is. You can buy them new direct from Keystone in HO or HOn3 for $75.00 so if you bid on one remember they are still in production at that price. I have 16 MDC Shays split between HO and HOn3, not all built yet. They are not as hard to build but you need to follow the directions close and that takes a bunch of very small drill bits and a few small files. If you take you time and do it right they will run very well.
That's quite a collection! Thanks for the MDC tip. I will keep an eye on Ebay, or perhaps contact David Hoffman when I have some money left over. Do you have any experience with installing a decoder in these models?
Hi , What do you have in mind for DCC. There is a bit of a space situation without doing some surgery to the MDC Shay or any Shay if you want a DCC sound decoder and the speaker for it. The easiest DCC install might be a "no sound" TCS - Z2 decoder. They are very small and should fit in the Cab. I have one but have not installed it. I also have a Micro-Tsunami - TSU-750 Sound Decoder. I have been playing with a way to fit the Tsunami and the necessary speaker but it will requires more than a small modification to the Boiler and moving a few things around. I am still working on this as I find time. For my own trains I am converting all control to Radio Control with Battery Power. My RC receiver requires about twice the space of one of the larger DCC Decoders. Then some more space for the Battery. I have a Sound Module I can us when I have space for one of the new small speakers. It is really nice not having to worry about track wiring and everything that goes with that when using Radio Control and carrying your own Battery for power. Radio Control for Small Trains. - TrainBoard.com
Just need to know if it can reasonably be done. As long as others have done it, I'll find a way too, so I'm just trying to make sure it's not impossible. I've now received all but one of my ordered books. So much to read, so little time
Time for a small planning update Hope you've all had a nice Christmas en New Year celebration. I spent part of mine reading and planning. Main focus of my plan will be to get something done. As a beginner, choosing a difficult subject in terms of availability of ready-to-run items, realism will not be my first priority, but whatever I make has to be believable. I've now set my mind on 'freelancing' something. Though I understand that this can actually be more difficult to get right than working off a prototype, I think it's the easier route for my skills and knowledge. My question to you is, if you read the below, would this make for a believable layout, something that actually could have existed, or would it be highly unlikely or impossible? The Plan (TM) Scale Nn3 (that's right ) for space reasons. I do know the stories of N scale taking more space than HO, because it's most suitable for long trains etc, but I've seen examples on the web of what can be done in Nn3 and I like what I see. I'm more in it for the big picture than minute detail on cars and locos anyway. Location Colorado, imaginative canyon where a fork from clear creek flows. I chose this location because I like the Clear Creek scenery examples I've seen, there's a lot of info about it and photos will be easy to get. Also, I have Brunk's book which covers stuff from around there. Industries in the neighbourhood: (a selection of) gold, silver, coal, limestone, iron, sheep, lumber, tourists, uranium, tungsten. Setting: 1 small through station with tiny depot + town, 1 ore mine, 1 ore bin. Connects to other industries on one side and Colorado & Southern on the other (both connections are not modeled, or may be, but later). One branch line serves the mine and bin. (Basically what the xTrackCad-plan in one of my previous posts represents, though the actual track plan will be somewhat different). Theme Year: around 1925 Season: Autumn Railway: fictional company set up by a conglomeration of mines and other industries along the portrayed fork, to connect to the C&S. Motive power and rolling stock Second hand locomotives: 2 truck shay for the branch (used from wherever) 0-6-0 switcher (used from wherever) 2-6-0 Mogul main line (2x?) (used C&S equipment) 4-6-0 ten wheeler main line (#20 or 22 used from RGS) Second hand rolling stock: Ore gondolas Stock cars for sheep Skeleton or whatever cars for logs Various cabooses Various random cars (box, flat) One or two ancient passenger coaches (I mean second hand as in my example would have purchased it second hand, doesn't mean I'll be getting second hand models per se) Material Code 40 hand laid track NEC Power Cab Any thoughts much appreciated as always
Have you tried your hand at Nn3? I have two kits. One is an EBT hopper, the other is C&S #1002. I've periodically taken shots at Marklin locomotives on ebay...mostly those for either the 0-6-0t or the 2-6-0s. Many of the techniques required for Nn3 are different from those of HOn3, Sn3, and On30. Going beyond Harry Brunk, there were a few similar roads. There is much to be gained from looking at these...as it will help you create a railroad that is more yours than Harry's. I'd recommend the Silverton RR and Denver, South Park, & Pacific. The best book on the Silverton roads is Bob Sloan's Rainbow Route: [ame="http://www.amazon.com/Rainbow-Route-Illustrated-Silverton-Railroad/dp/0913582123"]Amazon.com: Rainbow Route: Illustrated History of The Silverton Railroad (9780913582121): Robert Sloan, Carl A. Skowronski: Books[/ame] The best for looking at the canyon scenery of the South Park would be the Pictorial Supplement to the Poor's Denver, South Park, & Pacific: [ame="http://www.amazon.com/Pictorial-Supplement-Denver-Pacific-Abridged/dp/B0006RWC44"]Amazon.com: Pictorial Supplement to Denver South Park Pacific, Abridged Edition: R. H Kindig, E. J. Haley: Books[/ame] Poor's book and Kindig's Pictorial Supplement together are the primary resource on the South Park & C&S. Until recently, they were also the best resource on the Colorado Central... The recent Colorado Central Book is out of this world...it is the best source on the Clear Creek Canyon...far more depth than Brunk's articles: http://sundancepubs.com/ColoCent.html Michael
