Wo, LEW, that's a biblical thing--look but do not see. Now that I check 1199, how in heck could we have missed that??? Your mind is sharper than mine. Thanks for the answer.
Fitz, it's probably been said, but thank you so much for sharing these beautiful photographs. I know less about the NYC than any other eastern road and have learned so much from your posts and the conversations that follow. This is wonderful stuff.
Hardcoaler, thanks. I grew up alongside the Mohawk Division of the Central, in Little Falls, NY, and actually witnessed as a kid, the transition from steam to diesel. Wish I had the interest, the $$ and the equipment to have recorded that on film, but I was more interested in Boy Scouting, then in high school, girls, all the usual stuff. I started buying prints from Harold Vollrath once I rediscovered steam at the age of 52. When his collection went up for auction I bought his NY Central group, but was disappointed in the fact that it only contained about 225 negatives, whereas his list of Central subjects was well over 1,000. Most of the classic Central mainline engines, the 4-6-4 Hudsons, 4-8-2 Mohawks and 4-8-4 Niagaras had been removed, so what I received was a collection of these lesser locomotives, but, hey, they are New York Central steam and very interesting to me. There are a few other folks here on Trainboard who are regular New York Central contributors. LEW is a retired NYC engineer who has some wonderful memories that he shares with us of actual steam operations on the Big Four (CCC&StL). Roger has a great website of his own, featuring a lot of the midwest operations and a lot of LEW's experiences. Hank grew up along the Hudson Division and has memories of NYC steam in operation. Mike models the Central, Charlie chimes in with his memories, and we have other younger folks who express interest. Take a look at the Fallen Flags Forum and some of the many subjects there. Roger has quite a photo collection which he uses to start a lot of the threads, always very interesting. I have become a big fan of today's operating steam, and if you are interested, check out my albums in RailImages here. LEW, I did check NYC Lines page 537, where 6810 exhibits the same steam pipe configuration as 1199. This is still absolutely fascinating to me. No, this does not mean "the end." There will be more.
In a way, I prefer the not so famous locos, it was the 2-8-0 that did the work that was needed before the Mohawk could shine
Jim, I'm fascinated that every NYC caboose I remember were nothing but simple boxes with stubby cupolas that appear to be tacked on as an after-thought, just like your photo of 19462. I don't think I've ever seen a photo showing a "modern" NYC caboose, though I'll happily stand corrected if you or Roger have one in your collections. Interestingly, B&M used the same boxy configuration for their back-water runs. Though I remember nothing but N-5s on the Fitchburg Division on their way to Rotterdam Jct., NY where B&M handed off to the Central. Credit to Bowser Mfg. for the following photo of an N-Scale N5. (I have three of these lovely beasties.)
Roger, thank you for these. You guys w-a-a-y out west (of the Hudson) definitely had some interesting cabins. Though I never could understand the advantage of a bay-window over a cupola. The cupola gave a bird's-eye view of the entire train where one person could see hotbox smoke rising from either side of a car. Whereas a bay-window required two people for continuous monitoring, and then best only on inside curves. Though I suppose as boxcars got taller, maybe the cupola view became unusable....any thoughts? BTW, your #2 is not a pretty sight. Apparently a rear-ender?
"Though I never could understand the advantage of a bay-window over a cupola. The cupola gave a bird's-eye view of the entire train where one person could see hotbox smoke rising from either side of a car. Whereas a bay-window required two people for continuous monitoring, and then best only on inside curves. Though I suppose as boxcars got taller, maybe the cupola view became unusable....any thoughts?" The cars did keep getting higher thus blocking the view from the top. Besides, there was no longer worry about overhead clearances.
Interestingly, the next two 2-8-0s that I scanned have that same steam supply pipe to the cylinders cast in the saddle. 6800 was for sure one of yours, LEW, but I can't find what 1116's previous identity was.
I'm anything but an expert on this, it is just data sourced from NYC 1930 loco diagram book: #1300 is actually NB-1a - 72,650lbs tractive effort, engine weight 361,000lbs, apparently only one built #1391 built Schenectady 4-1911 one of 25 locos of class NE-2A. 63,030lbs tractive effort, 363,300lbs engine weight. There were also sub-types NE-2D (20 locos 1917) and NE-2F (5 locos 1917, only differed from -2D for having Standard instead of Duplex stoker) and NE-2G (10 locos Dec-1920 - Jan-1921) only 16 still on the books by 1946 Regards Paul Woods Woody of Whangas
The 6800 a G-6, 1116 a G-46 locomotive . The main difference between a G-46 and the G-6 is the 46 has 57 in. drivers and the G-6 has 63 in. The 63 in. was the standard for NYC Mikes from H-5 through H-10 . The 2-8-4 also had 63 in. drivers . The 1199 was from the Ohio central as well as the 1116 . Pg. 466,467 shows the 1199 with the steam pipe on the cylinder. Who knows what goes on when we are not looking . The caboose with the low cupola is NYC proper . The photo of the three cabs ,(on the left MC large cupola , the center Early NYC , to the right B4 center cupola . Later bay window cabs only had one window on the side and were slightly shorter in length . The B4 cab had 4 windows on each side before plywood sides and oil stoves . With the bay window cab if the crew could get their feet up fast enough they could brace against slack action. With steam and running on the B&O it was up and down and around long curves and you looked your train over and gave a high ball and got one back if all was clear. As the trains grew in length the places you could see the rear end became few . The wrecked cab is what happens when a standing 85 car coal train is run into at 30 mph . LEW
Hmm, the 1300 has become a subject that needs more research. LEW, thanks for the explanation, and I am mystified that the 1199 had a steam pipe. As you say, who knows what goes on? Lots more research but I'm tired. Maybe tomorrow.
Hank, on page 14 is shown a page of 1930 Cairo Div. time table and you asked what the bold type was for . It is for the meeting points with the trains in the small print . This is what was called a time table meet . At the time indicated the inferior train must be in the clear. If the inferior train cannot be at that point and time indicated he must be in the clear at another siding or flagging. The superior train may leave after the time shown in the time table . If you are on the inferior train and in the clear you cannot leave until the superior train arrives with markers . The schedule is in effect for 12 hrs. If the superior train did not arrive after a short time you would go to the phone for instructions . LEW
Boy, this is confusing. George Drury's Guide to North American Steam Locomotives shows 1300 as a Class NE-2b but then, a clue, it says for the B&A. Edson and Vail verify that information for the B&A, so evidently there were TWO 1300s built. Paul is right about the Class for the 0-6-6-0 and the fact that it is the only loco of that wheel arrangement ever built for the Central. The Central had a LOT of steam locomotives. BTW, that deleted message above was a duplicate of the one that preceded it, so I deleted it. Reference Material: Great stuff to find this old history.
"The wrecked cab is what happens when a standing 85 car coal train is run into at 30 mph . LEW" Lewman, please contact me. Roger Hensley
