NS line through Miamisburg, OH... both signals were green though about a mile or so down the line, they converge into one... Why would both signals be green?
That's normal on NS for as long as I can remember. When we used to watch trains in Manassas, before they single-tracked part of it, the double-track mainline from the station down past the signal bridge at Bristow and on down the line would have greens on both sides of both tracks until a train was in the next block (coming or going).
... I've gotten used to all the signals in this area on the NS (nee Conrail) line either being red or dark unless a train was approaching. Indeed, I sat there for about an hour waiting!!!!
Hehe. So many nights I remember waiting for a train as soon as we heard the click in the relay box and noticed a nice shiny red signal. Most of the time, we'd get the "win", but sometimes it was just some switching at the sidings in Manassas.
I wouldn't want to answer that until I knew what authority governs that section of track, ie CTC,ABS,TWC etc. Charlie
You know, Charlie makes an excellent point. And the signals at Bristow near Manassas may very well have changed by now anyway. They had pulled out a track past there and single-tracked it, but I vaguely remember someone saying something about it going back to double-track again, for that matter.
Where exactly is that photo taken? And facing North or South? I'm looking for the spot on the NS track charts...
There is a north facing signal just south of the Slidell, LA station on NS that told me how close Amtrak #20 (Crescent) was approaching. The signal would be green until #20 entered the Lake Ponchartrain causeway, when it turned yellow. When #20 exited the causeway, 2-3 miles south of the station, the signal turned red. I then knew I would be boarding in 4-5 minutes for one of my many trips to WAS.
I'm not absolutely sure (trying to find this on Google Maps !) but your photo shows a) A high target with a green signal (Clear) for trains on either track coming from where you're standing. b) Lower arm targets on each mast - facing AWAY from your direction. This would indicate that this would be - for a train coming toward you - an "advance" or "distant" or "approach" signal for an interlocking (switches) a mile or so behind you. Where do the tracks "converge" ?...behind your camera position, I think. Ours (NS) were "Approach Lighted" to save power & bulbs, so would only be lighted if a train was "on the circuit". Sorry I can't be more clear or sure - Train crew have incomplete knowledge of the mysteries of electronics and must operate on faith. BOb
Sounds like Bob has the right idea. In "automatic block" territory, the signals would display the most permissive signal they can when "at rest". If you looked at the signals facing the opposite direction, they most likely will both show yellow "approach". When a train would be lined coming toward you in this shot, the signal on that track would go red as soon as the dispatcher lined the train at the control point down the line away from you.
... I'm facing south... ... this is the Mound Street (Avenue?) crossing. The tracks meet to the south. It is a long siding track inasmuch as I suspect that it prolly 2+ miles before converging northbound... then entering the NS yard in Moraine.
Here? If so, I can't seem to reconcile your photo with the Google Street View of that crossing... could be taken at different times. Also the 2008 track chart shows double-track main all the way from Moraine Yard south to the Central Division some 30 miles away. The Google satellite photos do indicate some track work of some kind (adding or removing track, or refurbishing ties) north of Mound Ave. so it's possible things have change one way or another between the time of your photo, the Google photos, and my track chart. The track chart shows signals protecting a crossover about a mile north of Mound road, but no signals at the crossing... clearly different from your photo. I don't mean to pester about this... it's just something of an engaging puzzle to me... Oh, and the original point of my digging... signals in the Miamisburg area were ABS as of 2002. Things may, of course, have changed. If i understand it correctly, the "default" aspect of a bidirectional ABS signal with no trains anywhere near would be green (clear) on both tracks in both directions. Right?
Yes, they would be green as long as there are at least 2 blocks between the green and either a train or absolute (i.e. controlled by dispatcher) signal. The first intermediate from the absolute would show nothing better than yellow unless a train was lined to continue past the absolute.
... yah, the trackage musta changed since your views albeit not much... it's a strange mix of single track and siding for a line that doesn't have a lot of traffic... but sometimes, when there is a lot of traffic, it can be... awesome! Thanks!
Hi, all...After reading the updates, hit Google maps again (thanks for the additional clues !). The "maps" overhead shows your signals, though in "Street View" the signals cannot be seen - just a back hoe and ballast piles on the locations - the ground level photos don't necessarily correspond to the "Maps" satellite photo times.) Following the track along your (Compass - South) view about 2.2 miles, across the river at the "Farmington Rd." crossing, another pair of signals...these are 2-headed in the "south" direction only. Continuing another 2.5 miles brings you - between Center Ave. & Carlisle Rd. - to what appears to be a "CP", with signals at both ends and crossovers - all consistent with what you see on your photo. Didn't have as much luck going the other way - next signal I could SEE was just south of the "Main St." crossing in Moraine, 5.5 miles north . BTW: it's ALL at least 2-track ROW on the "Maps" view...though the trees block visibility of some of the route. Does any of this match your info, Rick ? Cool investigation - NS-CIS anybody ? Bob C.
OK, I've been misreading the chart a bit. The signals between Center and Lower Carlisle Road are CP223, protecting a crossover between the mains. At Farmington Rd. and at Mound Ave. are "High Restricting" signals. These restricting signals seem to be scattered every 5 miles or so along the line, so I believe they are simply general ABS block signals and not protecting anything more particular than "the block ahead". The signals at the crossovers are "Stop" type, as they would need to be, to protect the crossover. The signals at Farmington have 2 sets of heads facing both directions on a single mast. You can see this in Street View if you move far enough off the crossing to get an oblique angle on the masts. That's what confused me about the track chart. It's drawn that way, and so at first it didn't look like a pair of signals. I see what you mean about the backhoe and the ballast piles! About 2mi north of Mound Ave. is CP216, another crossover between the mains. North of that, the next signal is another set of high restricting signals at Moraine (~ MP 213). There's also a defect detector (hot box + dragging equipment) at Park Avenue.
I have a couple questions regarding signal indications. I have seen many 4 aspect signals, absolute and permissive, on Canadian Pacific track in MN. What aspects and indications can these signals display? They clearly want to display more than stop, approach, advanced approach, and clear. Also, the other day I saw a two head signal in Minneapolis displaying yellow over flashing red. I suspect that is some form of restricting. Can someone elaborate?
This page might help, regarding CP signals: http://www.railroadsignals.us/rulebooks/canpac/cp1.htm ... thought that seems an awfully short list compared to the CSX stuff I've looked at... As for the yellow over flashing red... was it a "high" or a "dwarf" signal? And what railroad? for CSX, if it was a dwarf signal, it would be "Medium Approach" ... doesn't look to be a valid indication for a high, but I don't know about other railroads.
Every railroads signals are different. Youd have to give us which railroad it is and then we could look at their SSI ( system special instructions) to get the meaning of it. CSX has some old B&O signals I used to see and we hated all the different aspects when traveling on their rail. So we would just cruise at about 15 mph. WHen traveling on a forgein line always follow green is go yellow is slow and red is stop. For all others check their rule book drop back 5 yards and punt When I came on to the CN's former EJ and E the signals we had to learn were a much shorter list then what the WC guys had. So its all relative I guess.
Would this help some - am an old PC/CR/NS Pittsburgh Division guy - so got some different lights to look at (NORAC): http://modernrailroading.com/DigitalLibrary/Norac/signalaspectsandindications.htm ...Rule 286 - C4 "Medium Approach" on a low signal - medium speed (30mph) inside interlocking limits, approach the next signal (if you are "Qualified", you KNOW where that is) prepared to STOP...even this isn't everything possible but may be explanatory for some of you and some signals. All the best. Bob C
