NYC The Steam Locomotive

I'm surprised that track pans would be installed on a curve, though that might have been artist's license taken by the engraver. Alignment of pans on curves would be critical to prevent the pan's outside wall from being destroyed. If centrifugal force and sideplay in the tender truck's journals allowed the trucks to shift far enough to the outside of the curve so the scoop scraped or broke through the pan wall, there'd be quite a mess to deal with.

 

The main line at Elk. had them but they were east and west of the ten mile I worked on between Goshen and Elk.I don't remember anyone saying how far apart they were, but would think track conditions and traffic would determine this. With the old yards at Elk.they held you out because of yard congesstion.If a train knew this they could always take water at Goshen or South Bend . LEW

 

Taking water assuming you would be held ahead of a yard limit makes a lot of sense. I never thought of that, thanks LEW.

 

I found a fascinating article on US and UK track pans, their design evolution, operation, problems, and solutions.

http://jimquest.com/writ/trains/pans/scoop.htm

 

WOW, I just made a GREAT Find! A Four Minute video of New York Central steamers "jerking" water from pans in western New York State, including two Niagaras. Two of the trains show the tender overflows venting when the tank is full.

Unfortunately you have to suffer through a commercial before the video starts, but the following four minutes are well worth the wait.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xmp523_new-york-central-railroad-track-pans_tech

As an aside, I didn't realize the Niagaras had air horns instead of steam whistles.

 

Hank, that sure is a great find. Man, the Central sure ran trains fast, even the freights. Some of those showed really heavy front end baggage cars full of mail, before the US government pulled the mail from the railroads. Hudsons could pull a lot of cars as evidenced on that clip. Didn't realize the Niagaras used the air horns, much like the SP GS engines, and I don't remember hearing them, but I was just a kid and diesels were honking too. Good one! :tb-biggrin:

 

That is a nice video. It contains segments from a video I bought from either Pentrex or Green Frog - I will have to check.

Yes, the air horn on the Niagara was preferred over the whistle. Whenever I got to see a Niagara, it was always the air horn, never the whistle. They were equipped with whistles, though. I think it was the same 6-chime type as used on the Mohawks and Hudsons.

Also shown in the video is the only set of F-2 diesels owned by the Central. They are shown in the same abbreviated striping as used on the as-delivered FT diesels. Some really rare views.

 

You could say they make a big splash when the scoop hits the water.Notice the water plug for the engines that don't have a scoop.Also notice the total plant that is involed in the operation. Water tank, troughs , the building for pumps etc.,piping,it is little wonder that they could not wait for diesels to come.
Was the f-2 the 1604- 1605? If the 1605 I have a short tale about it.
We had a discussion a few years ago on the air horns when I was writing about steam.
I have a short story about air horns on the 6000s that Bob Foster left me about burning out the fire after fireman had short fired the engine. Will try to get it together
and put it on trainboard. LEW

 

Yes (note the 3 portholes on their sides). Looking forward to your stories.

 

I found the video. It is "Reflections of the New York Central", 54 minutes, from Herron rail services. It is taken from 16mm film shot by John Prophet and others. Plenty of steam action from as far back as 1928.

 

This it note from Bob Foster RFE, Superintendent,etc .I do not know what the engine # was but it was eastbound St. Louis- Indianapolis.
By the way, when I operated the S-1, I usually used the air horn in occcupied areas, preferred the steam whistle in rural areas.
Had one trip on #40 when the fireman disregarded my instructions and "short-fired" the S-1 and at Terre Haute he had a huge pile of unburned coal in the back. He wanted to shake the grates but I said no. I cleaned his fire for him on Carbon Hill by working her close to "line and line" on the valve pilot and on arrival at Indpls. we had a pretty level fire.
The loco took the excessive and extreme throttle and valve setting and maintained steam pressure right at the maximum. Must still have cinders falling from the sky around Coal Bluff and Carbon yet today. Your pal Jacobs had no greater admiration than I for the S engines, also the L-3/4 and the J-3. WRF
He has sent me several articles about running steam engines on passenger trains and I will try to put some up from time to time. Next will be about the 1605.
LEW

 

LEW, I think I understand "short fire" and "pile of unburned coal", but can you explain "line and line", what it means, and how it can level a misshapen fire?

Thanks

 

Hytec, I started to throw that in but old age set in and that was it. Line and Line is talking about the valve cut off and the speed. On the speed recorder are two hands one records the speed and the other the cut off. As a rule you ran an engine cutoff about 20 points ahead of your speed from 30 to 45 mph and then closer as the speed increased until at 60
and up the hands would only have a spread of 5 points. At this time you started going by feel and sound. What he was saying was he was working the engine as hard as he could
and still not beat it to death,in other words he was creating a hard draft at the rear of the firebox to burn out the pile of coal.The closer the hands the closer the valves were to center and that would shorten the stroke of the valve in relation to the speed. Just like an auto in overdrive.
Now about the 1605: Looking at my timebook in March 1954 I had the 1605 three times that month,17,24,26th and also the 3001, 20,22,23 and you will get to see the 3001 at
Elkhart if you go to the NYCSHS meet in May 2012.
The 1605 was in the NYC stripes with the two tone grey body. The 1605 had a problem about spinning. The front wheels on the front trucks would spin and even with sand you was never certain if that would work. You would go along and all at once start spinning and sometimes you had to lower the throttle position to stop the spinning.Most of the time on a hard pull it would stop spinning and get you over the hill.After reporting this at So. Anderson after every trip and at Jeffersonville we asked the man at Jeff if he could find the problem knowing So. Anderson would never look at it.Well the man at Jeff said I think I found the problem. The front wheels on the front trucks are 2 inches smaller then
the rear ones. The traction motor would not roll enough to put the weight on the front wheels except on a hard pull letting the front wheels spin.The man at Jeff called Anderson and when we arrived at Anderson the engine was shipped to Avon ,new traction motor slipped in and we never had the engine again. I would see it going up and down the B-line and I think it was out of service about a year later. LEW

 

OK, now I understand. Weren't those settings also producing the highest efficiency?

 

Not really. I think what you are thinking about is what they called the ,company notch.
What he was doing was working the engine with a longer stroke on the valve producing more power then was necessary to move the train at hand.When going down the road,we will say a normal train for your district, not a tonnage train,the engineer had to work the
engine hard enough to cut the fire.Cut the fire meaning ,make the draft enough to make the fire a good color not yellow but a white color or clean fire.If you had a light train 4-5 cars you just had to turn on the blower lightly to fit the situation.
I did this same thing . We had a caboose hop to Greensburg to pick up 35 cars of coal to
take back to So. Anderson. We had an H-5 ,the number is gone,but the engine steamed perfect and I did not watch my fire. Upon arrival at Greensburg I looked in the firebox and the coal was ready to come out the door.I told the engineer, well we will go eat and I will take care of it when we come back.Coming back from eating I took the fire hook and shoved the coal out into the firebox,having the blower on and while we were turning the engine and picking up the cars and when it came time to leave I was ready.I learned two things ,Just because the engine is steaming all is not well and don't be to lazy to look at your fire. LEW

 

LEW, thanks for all the interesting information and the story about the 1605. Wow! A 2 inch difference in wheel diameter! Makes you wonder how that could have happened. Could it have been the cause, or the result, of the wheel spinning?

 

I enjoy LEW's stories about steam on the NYC RR and the firing and operation of steam locos. Diesels are sorta sterile creatures in regards to operating. A hogger doesn't need to get his hands dirty and their are no firemen per se. I have been thinking of joining a museum that has a steam department and getting experience that way. Dunno if I ever will and dunno if I physically could do it. I ain't getting any younger!
But I can live vicariously through LEW's tales of days gone by!

Charlie

 

Mike, About the only way I can think of this happening was the traction motor was overhauled and only the rear set of wheels were replaced. Of course this spinning led to a grinding action on the front wheels helping helping to make the wheels smaller. The engine house man at Jeff was great with steam also. We went into Jeff with a steam engine and the main spring on one of the drivers had a broken . Fred replaced the spring and this was
done outside without a drop pit. So. Anderson had a drop pit and all the tools to do this job but they would have been a month or two getting the job done. As bad as this sounds it is worse today on CSX, at least north of the river,Ohio,.
Charlie, Thank you . Look at Roger Hensley's site ,madisionrails.railfan.net,scroll down the left side to the green caboose,memories,then down the left side to my name ,maurice lewman,and I have a tale or two taking trains over the Wabash hill with steam and how we did it with the diesels. LEW