TT scale?

ctxm Mar 13, 2008

  1. Pete Nolan

    Pete Nolan TrainBoard Supporter

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    Sure, although I haven't tried it myself yet--one of those I'll try it the next time things.

    He simply took a sheet of acetate and scored it with a No. 11 Exacto blade, using a metal rule and a fine grid as a guide. Then he dribbled white india ink on the acetate and wiped it into the grooves. After a minute or two, he took a clean sheet of tissue, and wiped the acetate clear. The india ink stayed in the grooves. I forget which side of the acetate he used, but that's a simple experiment--try both sides and see if there is any difference. He mounted the grooved sides toward the interior.

    He was rebuilding a ship captain's "mansion" while I was talking to him. Absolutely stunning results, so I think it takes some practice with pressure on the knife, to get consistent grooves. It's not 3D results, but better than the Walther's printed acetate I bought back in 1967. Much thinner mullions, and not ragged at all.

    This may be an old technique. I've never read many model railroad magazines.
     
  2. mdrzycimski

    mdrzycimski TrainBoard Supporter

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    Thanks Pete. I just tried a version of this technique the other day. I didn't know I was emulating a master modeler. I remember reading a Robert Hundman scratchbuilding article where he did something similar. Well, back to my experiment. I wanted to model the large silver framed windows on modern warehouses. I got some .005 clear styrene and scribed some grooves with a modified tool. I then painted on some silver paint to fill the grooves and immediately wiped off most of it. It seemed to work but the paint left a film on the styrene that would not come off. Do they make silver india ink? I think this technique will work with the right materials. Maybe I should thin the paint. I will keep experimenting.
     
  3. Lownen

    Lownen TrainBoard Member

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    I'd try thinning the paint. You might also cover the styrene with an adhesive tape before scribing. Or maybe even that liquid masking tape. I haven't tried it but I've heard good things about it.
     
  4. BoxcabE50

    BoxcabE50 HOn30 & N Scales Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    Or, they'd be most welcome to come over here. :thumbs_up:

    Boxcab E50
     
  5. ben scaro

    ben scaro TrainBoard Member

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    Hmmm, do any of them model TTn3 1/2 currently?

    I acquired some QR TT models done over thirty years ago when I used to live in Canberra. The modeller had done some sheep and cattle trucks, done up some old Bachmann/Model Power 40' tankcars as 'near enough' QR tank wagons, and a couple of QLX and similar boxvans. Another modeller had done some rather nice wooden bogie boxvans.

    3 Evans suburban cars sat on overscale Lima British N coach chassis - horrible representations of the N scale chassis they were intended as, but not bad at all as TT!

    The locomotives were fairly crude but given what was available at the time, not bad. Rivarossi/Atlas Pacifics and Mikados had been bashed into BB18 1/4 Pacifics and AC16 'Macarthur' 2-8-2s - built by the US for overseas railways for the benefit of our septic readers . . . a 1200 class EE cab unit was on a Concor PA chassis and a 1450 class diesel electric was done on a Mehano RSD15 chassis.

    Probably a better effort could be done these days, but in one way ,the overscale early N mechanisms and wheels were better suited to TT . . .

    Probably the finest TT I've seen recently was an Irish layout done to the British 'TT' ie, 3mm scale. It was done on prototypical 5'3" track - 15.75mm and a superb model in all respects.

    Cheers

    Ben
     
  6. Pete Nolan

    Pete Nolan TrainBoard Supporter

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    I was not clear. He said paint did not work, as it was impossible to clean off completely, even acrylics. White india ink worked for his method, and didn't melt or scar the acetate, or take so much water that the mullions got muddy.

    I'm absolutely sure there are predecents in the scale modeling magazines for this technique. I just don't know of them. Just passing along what I was told. I'll upload my stuff to Railimages, so I can show some examples.
     
  7. Lownen

    Lownen TrainBoard Member

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    http://www.automationz.co.nz/nz120/nz120.html


    If you have links please post them here.
     
  8. Pete Nolan

    Pete Nolan TrainBoard Supporter

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    He was working on this building. I didn't bring a flash nor a tripod, so it's not the best. But you can see the outframes of the building, and the mullions.

    [​IMG]
     
  9. Pete Nolan

    Pete Nolan TrainBoard Supporter

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    Here's a little wider view. Notice the chalk stick selection. Man, I wish I could afford that!

    [​IMG]
     
  10. Pete Nolan

    Pete Nolan TrainBoard Supporter

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    Given my shipbuilding interests, here's one that really caught me eye. The figures, btw, are N scale.

    [​IMG]
     
  11. Lownen

    Lownen TrainBoard Member

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    Very nice images Pete. Thanks for sharing. The shipyard really is great, I agree.
     
  12. Pete Nolan

    Pete Nolan TrainBoard Supporter

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    Just resurrecting these images, four years forgotten, has given me a lot of building ideas.
     
  13. ctxm

    ctxm TrainBoard Member

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    Interesting scene but where's the crew? Did they abandon work on this ship? No scaffolding or material laying around? and why did they build their shipway right near a rock outcropping? ...dave
     
  14. Lownen

    Lownen TrainBoard Member

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    Probably all good questions. I just loved the details of the partly constructed ship; apparently constructed beam by beam and plank by plank.
     
  15. Pete Nolan

    Pete Nolan TrainBoard Supporter

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    Good questions, Dave. I seem to remember the master builder muttering something about it and shaking his head. He had said earlier that some scenes were all wrong, and had to be moved/reconstructed. A number of volunteers have built, and are still building, this huge diorama, and he eventually gets around to correcting mistakes and work that is not up to his standards. But most of the work is done with actual photographs of the scenes.

    I've been told, but can not verify, that some small shipyards in New Hampshire built WWI and WWII wooden minesweepers without scaffolding. I stumbled across one in Lee, NH, in about 1972 that was abandoned. There were three 175-footers at about this stage of completion--the shipyard could build no more than three ships at a time. No signs of scaffolding, but that is certainly not conclusive: it could have been stripped for scrap. No signs of where scaffolding was attached--still not conclusive at all.

    I'm going to have to look at navsource.org again, a great source of photos for ships like wooden minesweepers. The smaller harbor minesweepers (100'-130') would be a good comparison.

    Or perhaps they used interior scaffolding. I've seen that done many times once the hull is strong enough to support itself, as this one is.

    I also sure the builder of this scene did not want to obscure his beautiful modeling of the hull! It is built stick by stick with scale wood.
     
  16. Pete Nolan

    Pete Nolan TrainBoard Supporter

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    Here's what I learned today. At a certain point in construction, the scaffolding was taken off. It looks like this photo shows a ship past that point of construction.
     
  17. ben scaro

    ben scaro TrainBoard Member

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    Thanks, I was aware of the fine NZ modelling in TT but was wondering more about whether anyone models QR in TT currently.

    There are a few problems that I can see with TT standard gauge from the American and Australian perspective.

    While it's a well supported scale in Europe, I found recently that trying to order basic parts you'd need for scratchbuilding Aussie (and American) prototypes was very hard and in some cases next to impossible.

    Basic things a scratchbuilder would need- like etched roofwalks, brake wheels and freight trucks - are just not readily available. I got a few sets from one of the few remaining TT dealers, a really nice bloke, btw, but I understand he liquidates old stock from former TT dealers in the US and when it goes . . . it's gone forever.

    Also, the TTSMR list is basically inactive - last posting six months ago - I gave up on it in frustration.

    So . . . before anyone gets *too* excited about TT, these are a few of the reality checks you might run through first . . .

    Ben
     
  18. Lownen

    Lownen TrainBoard Member

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    Ben;

    TTSMR has shut down, yes. TT_IMS is still active on Yahoo! That group is oriented to scratch builders, so you'll have better luck there finding new American prototype parts and kits. As for new products, this discussion illustrates that there's interest. The fact that you investigated it for yourself is simply further proof. If a European TT manufacturer sees this and decides to give us a few products, or an American one thinks it would be interesting to test the waters, in either case us TT scalers have made some headway.
     
  19. ben scaro

    ben scaro TrainBoard Member

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    Hmmmm . . . well, Christopher Columbus allegedly set out across the Atlantic in search of India, apparently. That isn't proof that India was there . . .

    The reason I investigated - including ordering a few parts - was I had been a member of a TT newsletter some years back and decided to have a second look.

    I think the more relevant things were that there was VERY little available, (including via the TT-IMS forum), even less than when I'd been involved previously, and ergo I decided to focus on N as it had more potential.

    The term 'death throes' sprung to mind as regards American TT. I'd welcome substantive evidence otherwise . . . but I certainly saw none.

    I believe one of the European manufacturers - Tillig ? - did have a brief excursion into American outline about ten years ago, but obviously demand was insufficient to make it worthwhile.

    A German special interest group did have an etch done for a US boxcar, but it would set you back 15 euro and is only enough to detail one car.

    Regards

    Ben
     
  20. Lownen

    Lownen TrainBoard Member

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    I guess it's how you look at things. You see "death throes". I see lots of people saying they'd buy it if it were there, or they chose N scale because it wasn't. There is definitely a market. Its not going to replace N scale, and I don't want it to. But if someone wanted to put in the effort, it could certainly grow the way Z scale is growing today.
     

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