Updating my n-scale fleet to DCC

freddy_fo Oct 24, 2019

  1. Keith Ledbetter

    Keith Ledbetter TrainBoard Member

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  2. freddy_fo

    freddy_fo TrainBoard Member

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    Very good info... thanks!
     
  3. freddy_fo

    freddy_fo TrainBoard Member

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    Keith, I picked up a set of those lights and did two more installs using them on a couple of C44-9W. Went together very nice. Thanks again for the tip.

    20200101_155125.jpg

    I also figured out fantastic glue for affixing the LEDs directly to the lenses... bondic UV glue. If I gob enough on around the pico LED it works to add stability to the wires where they are soldered to the lamp too so I don't have to use heat shrink to stabilize that area.


    Started on another set of engines. I picked up these Micro Trains FT A and B "Battleship Row" engines back when they first came out but after I switched to DCC so never been ran before. I'm only doing sound on the A unit and the biggest mod I can tell is cutting up the frame to make room for a speaker. Fortunately on the tail end there was just the right amount of chassis meat to cut away and make room without getting into the drive train. The B unit will get a lokpilot 53664 nano decoder.

    20200103_114938.jpg

    Including these two engines I've got 7 left to do. The one in that bunch that has me concerned is a 1st gen Kato SD40 that uses the old chassis with the separate light boards. I'd like to do sound on it but the only way I can see to make room for a speaker is to mill out a pocket in the fuel tank under the motor. I don't have the equipment to that and having a hard time finding a vendor that will do it the way I am asking... gah! I could get a micro milling station but $400 all said and done but I can't think of other uses for the setup so not going to go that route for now.
     
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  4. Keith Ledbetter

    Keith Ledbetter TrainBoard Member

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    good tip I've heard good things about bondic so will try it out. I really those LEDs. Tiny enough to fit anywhere. I have been where you are with the mill.

    I ultimately bought a cheapy xy table and a drill press holder for the dremel and got some 1/8 inch end mills (bits) It's not near as good as a mill don't get me wrong but for ~$100 I can do most of what I need.

    On a side note how are you attaching those magnet wires to the common (blue) I just haven't found a great way. usually I just isolate a section of PCB strip and go there but even that getting them all together on there when you get 4 or five wires on there.
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2020
  5. freddy_fo

    freddy_fo TrainBoard Member

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    I'm doing the same thing with the wires where I put a blob of solder on an isolated trace on the PCB. Actually two blobs... 1 for the common+ then the other for the magnet wires. I just make sure to strip off the lacquer insulation then lightly twist the conductors together and feed into the melted solder blob all at once.

    I'll look into that dremel setup. Do you have links of the setup you used?
     
  6. Keith Ledbetter

    Keith Ledbetter TrainBoard Member

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  7. freddy_fo

    freddy_fo TrainBoard Member

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    Thanks Keith! I'm going to think about this for a bit... I'd like the nicer proxxon micro mill but I can't think of how to get more use out of it your suggested setup seems to make more sense. Of the upgrades I have yet to do this SD40 is the only one that needs milling I can't do with a cutting wheel. I think maybe I could do installs for others but I have no idea how some of these guys do it for as cheap as they do and come out ahead labor wise LOL.
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2020
  8. Sumner

    Sumner TrainBoard Member

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    I have a mill and use it but also have found...

    [​IMG]

    http://1fatgmc.com/RailRoad/Decoder-1/page-2.html

    that I can do quite a bit with a die grinder bit in my flex-shaft rotary tool.

    [​IMG]

    I did the vertical slot in the top frame half with the mill but ....

    [​IMG]

    did the pockets with the rotary tool and carbide bits. You can't quite get square corners in the pockets but I think there are even smaller bits than what I used here and I found an assortment of them really cheap,

    Sumner
     
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  9. FlightRisk

    FlightRisk TrainBoard Member

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    @freddy_fo Have you done anything using fiber optics as light pipes to route light where you need it? Also, what is the state of the drop-in decoders these days? It would be nice to not have to mill things out.
     
  10. freddy_fo

    freddy_fo TrainBoard Member

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    I have not. It would come in handy for some of the ESU "drop in" sound decoders where aux1 and aux 2 are already wired to LEDs installed on their boards. I have no idea what all would be involved to do that though so I either used aux3/4 in those cases or desoldered the onboard LEDs and wired my own remote lights in their place (very tricky micro soldering work). If you know or are up to the task of doing the fiber thing then I say go for it. I can see how in certain cases it could simplify the installs.
     
  11. freddy_fo

    freddy_fo TrainBoard Member

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    Hmmm, your profile says you live in southeast Utah... not too far from me. How would like to make a little money doing some mill work?:D That frame pictured is close (if not the same) to what my SD40 uses. I was thinking though to mill out in the center of the chassis where the tank is to make room for the speaker.
     
  12. Sumner

    Sumner TrainBoard Member

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    I'm not interested in the money or making this into a business but maybe I could help you out on this. Send me a PM with where you are and such, I'm in Blanding.

    [​IMG]

    One problem I have to some degree is my mill is big but it seems to work fine. I just have to be careful as it would be really easy to crush or bend a frame in the vise. It is kind of delicate balance to have the frame tight enough in the vise so that it won't move during the milling operation yet not too tight.

    I just found it easier to use the carbide bits for some areas.

    [​IMG]

    Above is the same frame but I milled the pocket out for the decoder. A little nicer looking but takes longer and once the shell is on no one sees that area,

    Sumner
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2020
  13. freddy_fo

    freddy_fo TrainBoard Member

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    You weren't kidding about being in the southeast were you?:D I pass through there every so often to see our daughter which lives just on the border of the reservation off the I40 in Arizona. Love the area out there and the solitude.

    I'm thinking getting some milling bits and using a dremel to start. If I can make that work I'm not too concerned about if it looks a little rough. Like you said once the shell is on no one is the wiser.
     
  14. freddy_fo

    freddy_fo TrainBoard Member

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    Next completed install is a Santa Fe RDC. At first the install looked to be easy with all kinds of room but in realities a bit of a bugger. First issue was running wires from one end to the other and keeping them hidden. Wound up running 36 Gauge magnet wire under the passenger seats to from the decoder installed in the area where there are no windows in the compartment underneath the seats to the lighting board at the other end. Used a zimo speaker with enclosure since I had the room but sound-wise I'm hard pressed to tell a difference between this and the streamlined backshop speakers of the same size. The Loksound 58820 decoder was installed just behind where all the wires are poking up through the floor.

    I was able to re-purpose a broken easy-peasy light board that had been laying in my scrap bin (glad I don't throw these things away). I bypassed the reed switch circuitry and cut off the battery holder portion and wired directly to the decoder. Unfortunately not enough juice to turn on the LEDs so I wound up tossing the PCB and just using the lens since it's molded to disperse light. I just UV glued soft white pico leds at either end then used some liquid tape to tack the lens to the roof of the body.

    20200113_130858.jpg

    For the sound file I used the galloping goose off of the loksound website.




    Next up (maybe) is a walthers/life like 2-8-4 berkshire. If anyone knows how to get the shell of the locomotive without breaking stuff please let me know... I'm a bit stumped on this one.(n):D
     
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  15. jdcolombo

    jdcolombo TrainBoard Member

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    I have a PDF file with photos on how I put a motor decoder in a Berk. It gives instructions on how to remove the shell, and how to wire a decoder to the motor and chassis without dropping the drivers. While this is a motor-decoder only installation (the decoder was stashed in the cab area), it could easily be used for a sound install - all you have to do is run the wiring back to the tender, instead of having it stop at the cab.

    If you e-mail me directly at jdcolombo at gmail, I can send you the PDF.

    I strongly suggest using a keep-alive if you do a sound install in this engine, because the overall electrical pickup isn't great. Good enough for DC operation; even good enough for a standard motor decoder, but if you put in a sound decoder, the sound will cut out and restart a LOT. So add a keep alive. A TCS KA-1 will fit just fine along with an ESU LokSound 5 DCC Micro. I have photos of the component layout in the tender for an ESU LokSound install that I can also send you.

    John C.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2020
  16. freddy_fo

    freddy_fo TrainBoard Member

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    Thank you John for your very kind offer. Email sent.
     
  17. freddy_fo

    freddy_fo TrainBoard Member

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    Almost done with my 2-8-4 berkshire update. John C was kind enough to send me his install instructions and advise me on how to hook up a keep-alive capacitor to the Loksound 58820 board which helped immensely with getting the install sorted. I did notice one thing though which is that my loco is way old still using GOW lamps so I had to replace those with LEDs.

    The cool lighting feature was the firebox effect which was a bit tricky to get the LED installed and run all the wiring in the void between the cab and flywheel so that the wires didn't rub on the flywheel with the shell on. Thank goodness for bondic UV glue which made quick work of getting the wires secured in place.

    All the electrics went in the tender and I used a 2 and 6 conductor mini plug (TCS) for the wiring in-between the tender and loco so I could separate the two and store in original packaging when not in use. Although I got it working it's a real PITA to connect the two pieces so probably not going to use that feature much. I have a jewel case around that will fit it just fine I'm sure.
    John, I wound up pulling track power from the loco instead of the tender... only the rear truck of the tender had pickups so I thought it would be to risky pulling power from there.

    Happy surprise was I uploaded the kato FEF sound file into the decoder and it was already set to run the firebox light on aux 1 when sound is turned on... way cool! I got lucky as I had no idea that feature was in there and on that output. All I had to do to get the engine running to my satisfaction was set the motor settings to "default" to get it to run smooth at notch 1, turn down the intensity on the firebox flicker, do some quick adjustments to sync the chuffs with wheel rotation
    and adjust the whistle and steam chuff volumes to max. I'm using a larger 12x16mm speaker that came with an enclosure that I got from Tony's Train exchange. Fits perfect in tender and the sound is very good. The TCS keep alive cap keeps the loco running with sound and lights for almost 5 seconds after losing power... I didn't expect it would go that long.

    All wiring ran in this pic. Used an old LED left over from parts to replace the GOW light in the tender. Pulled the diode in that board and replaced with a 1k resistor also from left over parts. Speaker enclosure near the front of the tender. The wiring in the loco where it comes down and to the rear has to be pushed forward off the unpainted portion of the chassis or the shell wont rest properly. I drilled a hole down the center to run the wires then tacked the wires in place with bondic so they wouldn't spring up and contact the flywheel.

    20200122_170857.jpg

    I guess the newer locos have a pcb LED board up front but mine is about 14 years old and only had a GOW light. I used double sided foam tape to secure the pico LED in place... works perfect.

    20200122_170907.jpg


    Tender ready for the shell with all the electrics in place.

    20200122_171345.jpg

    I'll get some video tomorrow hopefully. It's very cool to see the light flicker reflected off the tender but I did have to turn the intensity way down so it looks more realistic.
     
  18. jdcolombo

    jdcolombo TrainBoard Member

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    Nice job!

    Yeah, the first-run Berks had bulbs, and only the rear truck of the tender picked up power. I ended up replacing those tenders with ones from Bachmann (sadly, no longer available on their parts page), which have terrific electrical pickup (too bad the actual engine mostly sucked). The later runs of the Berk updated to LEDs and had both tender trucks picking up power, which is much better.

    I hope Atlas (which bought all the old LifeLike stuff from Walthers) re-runs this engine and adds traction tires to the #4 driver set, and wiring to the tender for DCC/sound. The engine itself is one of the best-running steam locos I have come across - smoother, even, than the Kato Mike. It just won't pull anything without traction tires (I've made my own) and doing the wiring is a bit of a chore.

    John C.
     
  19. freddy_fo

    freddy_fo TrainBoard Member

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    Thanks John. Yes it is a very nice running loco and very well detailed too. I haven't tried pulling much with it yet.

    I've a spectrum/bachmann 2-8-0 consolidated which I'm debating on converting. I got it back in 2000 but as I recall it had great motor control but a bit of a wobble which put me off. Too bad because it is a really nicely done model otherwise. Maybe just a simple decoder and done.
     
  20. freddy_fo

    freddy_fo TrainBoard Member

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    Here is the video for berkshire. Sorry for the crappy shaky video.

     

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