John, I never liked elephant ears on my favorite Railroad's engines, Mohawks and Niagaras, but I think you are right about the UP. That engine would actually look better with ears.
Hi sorry it took so long to respond to this one. Virginian had a nomber of different class of 2-8-8-2s USA,USC ,USB,USE,USD. The USA,USB,USC and USD all had the pumps flying on the front of the smokebox. The USE class was the only one that had the pumps mounted in the 'normal' position. The lifelike model of 737 as it comes from the factory is a close model of the USE class. I think that the USE class is the group of locos that came form the N&W orrigionally, by way of the Santa Fe. I dont have a roster breakdown of the Virginion locos (i'm more of an N&M man), But you coulb post this question on the N&W news group and I'm sure someone could come up with one.Go to http://www.nwhs.org/ and look up discussion group. (its an e-mail group). A good reference book for Vgn. locos is The Virginion Era by Lloyd D. Lewis, TLC publishing co. HTH.....Mike
Questions for fitz or watash, on that pacific, why dual compressors? Is that a third compressor in front of the fireman or is that the stoker engine?? Did the Elasco really make a difference on that small an engine???
Well, that is Watash's photo, but I'll take a guess at why two compressors. That Pacific hauled a long passenger train, and it needed a lot of air for the brakes. The unit on the fireman's side is definitely a feedwater heater pump. Can't answer your question about the Elesco, though all of those engines had feedwater heaters. If they didn't, the cold water pumping into the boiler caused big time stress on the metal. I am amazed at how the engineering progressed in steam locomotives. Heat the water before you dump it into the boiler, superheat the steam before injecting it into the cylinders, all of that just made the engines work better and better. I need to get off my pedestal. Fitz
Took a while, but I think I found a photo of both versions of the VGN 2-8-8-2/with and without the air compressors. Makes a difference. They both look mean. [ 19 May 2001: Message edited by: bnsf4354 ]
Well here are three photos of the same engine on different rr rosters. The photos should show.... 1. N&W 2015 2. ATSF 1792 3. VGN 737 Finding out the history of these wonderful machines is exciting.
BNSF4354, I especially like the "Out Shop" photos, like #737 when they were new. The others sure look rugged, but I saw a lot of the well kept steamers in the ElReno roundhouse after we turned them loose, so I guess its what you get used to. I never have liked the dirty ones. HA! Thanks for posting these.
One thing forsure.... You can always tell the difference from any 2-8-8-2, to one that N&W had! Big, burly and MEAN! That was the moto for N&W when they designed those 2-8-8-2's!
John and Bnsf4354, here is a little research info: RF&P #2 is simple road cylinders, with Elesco feedwater heater, flying air, and has been converted to oil fired. Vir #724 is compound, with Worthington, flying air, coal fired. N&W #2015 is simple heavy hauler cylinders, with Worthington, side air, coal fired. AT&SF #1792 is compound, Worthington, side air, coal fired. Vir #737 is compound, side air, Worthington, coal fired. D&RGW #1060-1075 (3400-3415) (16 engines) Alco's, that were like the ex C&O RF&P shown, was simple, Elesco, flying air, coal fired. During WWII D&RGW bought 15 N&W Y-2 2-8-8-2's in between 1943 and 1948. (The AT&SF's looked like Dolly P. coming down the road on hands and knees, the cylinders, and the front cylinders of compounds were 33 to 36" in diameter!)
BNSF4354, where are you finding all of those photos? I'm a firm believer that a picture is worth 1000 words and I can't see enough photos of old steam. Keep 'em coming. Fitz
Fitz, check out www.webshots.com they have lots of steam pics. Mostly in the community section. For those interested, the Athearn 2-8-2 is also a very close model of the Virginion woo woo woo class 2-8-2s. And the P2K 0-8-0 is also a very good match for the SB class that came from the C&O.....Mike
Watash great research stuff---Just one question. You cite NW 2015 as being simple and ATSF and VGN as compound---Since they were all the same engine does this mean that ATSF changed them to compounds after they bought them from NW? Off on business the next day or so, but I have a few more photos of steam action that you all might want to see--including Alleghenys, Challengers, Big Boys etc... I'll post some when I get back. Any requests?
bnsf4354, anything you have is welcome. Let's keep this thread open, even if it belongs over in the "Real" railroad thread. I have more pix too. How about a Big Boy, 4014, to start with?
BNSF4354, Yes, all these engines are 2-8-8-2, but that does not mean they are all copies now. The older engines came with large front and rear cylinders for low pressure heavy helper service which is low pressure simple design. As the engines were shopped, some were equipped with the smaller high pressure cylinders on the rear set, leaving the large cylinders on the front which made them Mr. Mallet's design, compounded. The later builds, and re-builds were given the smaller high pressure cylinders on both front and rear, which made them simple articulated, but no longer Mallets. Considerable experimenting was done by some of the roads as these engines were being converted, and an accumulation of large cylinder sets were being used on a few engines for yard switchers and hump yard work where speed was not required, thus saving some expence. Fitz, your question, My Uncle J.T.Wilson was shouldered with some of the design task of converting two AT&SF 2-10-2's into one 2-10-10-2 which did not prove as successful as the Virginnian's identical type, though neither had the steaming ability beyond yard speed. I have a copy of an erection diagram of J.T.'s drawing dated Sept.30,1913, that I re-drew on Cad. J.T. griped about management not listening to him, he tried to tell them it wouldn't work; because they refused to enlarge the firebox. The first Hinged engine in the U.S. was made in 1904, an 0-6-6-0 for the B&O and named "Old Maude". It was also made to Mr. Mallet's patent, which introduced full or high pressure steam into the rear set of cylinders, that in turn exhausted into the front cylinders under lower pressure, thus being "Compounded". All Mallets are compounds, due to the double expansion use of the steam supply. There were some Camel-Back Mallets that had 44" diameter front cylinders! Around 1910 when superheaters were being introduced, engines were being made with both sets of cylinders directly fed high pressure steam, called "simple" or single expansion, with exhausts passing over superheater tubing and on out the stack. To distinguish between the two types, the single expansion types were called Articulateds. Therefore one could say ALL Mallets are articulated, yet ALL Articulateds are NOT Mallets (pronounced Malley, he was French). [ 21 May 2001: Message edited by: watash ]
bnsf, I wouldn't mind seeing a few of the triplexes made the 2-8-8-8-2's. They had a 3rd set of drivers under the tender. these were of Erie and Virginian design. but not real successfull though but still big enough NOT to mess with!
Sorry bigboy, I tried to fix your pics, but something must be missing .....Mike [ 21 May 2001: Message edited by: Mike C ] [ 21 May 2001: Message edited by: Mike C ]
bnsf, THANKS! Now thats HUGH articulated steamer right their! Sadly not successfull!! But still nothing to mess with in looks!!!!!
Glad you liked them! I am working on getting some Class A and Alleghenys next. I include a Big Boy for UPbigboy and a Yellowstone. Keep the requests coming. [ 24 May 2001: Message edited by: bnsf4354 ]
